ATP's CFI Program
 

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on ATP flight school's CFI-I-MEI program. It seems like a really good deal to get all three ratings in two weeks. Any pros and cons of the program would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I noticed that their prerequisites want you to have the FOI, FIA, and FII written exams finished before getting there. May sound like a dumb question, but since I don't have my regs with me I'll shoot it out there anyways...but does that mean I am going to have to pay to get ground time so an instructor can give me an endorsement to go take those tests, or does ATP have some way of endorsing me before hand?

Thanks

As much as I'm anti-ATP. I think this isn't a bad program. The CFI is a license to learn. You can't really be "trained" for it. You learn by doing it. Just get the license and get out there and do the job.

Agreed. I have always been in favor of small FBO flight schools, but the price on this program is almost too good to pass up.

On a side note, I always figured that I would find any possible way not to flight instruct to build my time, but now that I am at this stage, I'm really excited to get all of the ratings. I think it will be pretty fun and a good experience. I'm actually kind of proud that I have turned my views around to be excited about flight instructing.:)

You don't need an endorsement for the instructor writtens, just go and do them at any time
edit: oh and btw, got my initial instructors license this monday =) (MEI)

I had a feeling the once you had the commercial, you didn't need endorsements to take the exams. I'm on vacation though, so I didn't have my regs to check my inclination.

Congrats on the MEI!!!

thanks :) Good luck on the writtens ;)

Thanks for the regs.

I did some searching and 61.35 states that [paraphrased] an applicant for an aeronautical knowledge test must receive an endorsement from an instructor before going to take a test...unless specified under this part. I did some searching and couldn't find anything that superceded that requirement for people going to take a CFI written. Thanks

I did the CFI program at ATP in Jacksonvillle. What location do you want to do? Jacksonville was extremely busy with a lot of Admin people everywhere, so be on your best behavior. I felt that there wasn't enough 1-on-1 time with students. Make sure that no matter what happens you know the FOI, Endorsements like the back of your hand. Everything else they will teach you by means of a slide show, yes I said slide show.

Sign-off's are not required for any instructor written exam.

This is amazing to me that they could get you through all of the instructor ratings in only two weeks! From my peers that have their CFIs, I've only heard what a challenging certificate it was to get; then to add on the II and MEI.....well.....I am awed that it can be done.

USMCFLYR

Two weeks would really be pushing it. Assuming you are prepared in that amount of time, it could take at least that long to schedule your checkrides. The price looks very good though.

To do it in two weeks, you're basically going to have to go in there ready to rock. Have your binder ready, have your regs memorized and be automatic on the FOI. In two weeks you basically get a flight or two for each check ride and a little bit of brush up.

Didn't go to ATP but know a lot of people that did for the CFI program. Regardless of where you do the CFI the cost will be totally dependent on your preparation.

Just waiting for the LOA from the FSDO can take 2 weeks, at least in Florida :p

There are several thoughts that come to mind about this program. One is, if you go in with your 2 or 3 writtens done and to a high enough score, you will already know a lot about what is required of a new CFI since the only significant extra things for a CFI to do are are sitting on the right side and explaining what they are doing as they do it. As DE says, the rest can't really be taught and you have to learn it on the job ie. the psychology of students and how to best adapt things to hard-heads.

The second thing is AllATPs has a tried and true system of "teaching to the test". They know before you sign up who your examiner is by name, and what he asks for and how much. This really makes a difference in the success rate, however much it may sound like cheating. It's not cheating, they just send a lot of people through the mill and they know what to do to get them ready to pass. So some or all of the speed they offer is just this.

But I think there is also a significant lacking in the ATP program from what I have seen over the years. That whambam memorize a few things and go take your checkride concept does not drill anything very deep into anyone and even less to get them thinking creatively about how to teach. All the ATPers I ever crossed paths with fit this description. The ones that are on their own (ie, not teaching at ATP) are fairly clueless about how to teach. Sorry but it's true to my experience. They are used to being told how to do everything to pass the test which does not involve any creativity. An ideal instructor is good because they know how to adapt the material to the student.

All in all though, since getting started teaching is the main thing to do, I am generally positive about the ATP CFI program. Don't go unprepared, it is best used as a finishing course.

That's my feeling with the program...that you do all of the preparing, studying, binder, etc at home and then head to ATP to finish up and sign you up for the checkride.

I bought the FOI study book today and will see how that goes. I also thought a good idea might be to go up with some friends and sit in the right seat. I feel that the maximum of 12 hours of actual flight time that is included might be pushing it to learn how to fly right seat. Guess I'll be hittin' the books over the holidays. :D

I wouldn't do that unless your friends are instructors. What happens when you screw up and you have two rated pilots up front? You both burn. You already know how to fly, why waste time/money doing something that doesn't take much practice?

Flying from the right seat isn't any different than the left seat. A little different muscle memory but guess what? Push yoke forward, cows still get bigger. Visual cues are slightly different, However in a cessna or piper you're only a couple feet from where you used to sit. If you just use your left leg to line up centerline instead of right (how I taught my students) you'll be fine.

So, the question remains...if i were planning on getting my CFI quickly at a place that is going to charge me a lot of money, AND I was going to do 90% of the work prior to arriving, why wouldn't I find some place cheaper?

BUT....be careful on how you approach this. If you go up with a CFI while he's sitting in the left seat, he's pretty much giving you dual towards a CFI...so he better have 2 years etc under his belt!

EDIT: did they just change that "or" in the reg that gives the 24 month rule for instructing first time applicants?

According to the CATS website:

http://www.catstest.com/html/applica...nstructor.html

you don't need any signoff, although FAR 61 leads one to believe that one is needed for the FOI ... whatever. I'm not sure where the exemption is.



As for the other ratings, look under eligibility requirements. It'll say whether you need a sign-off. Not required for ATP, for example.

ATP's CFI program IS fast paced. I went through it, and it is pretty much a self-study program. I wouldn't classify every ATPer as not knowing how to teach though, I know how to teach, but maybe that comes from the fact that I have other life experiences to draw from, who knows? Anyway, in that short part of the program there is a lot of self study, no one will tell you the answer to anything unless you have exhausted all assets you know of to find the answer for yourself. It's a good idea I think since it makes you know where to find information. You'll spend a lot of late nights too. Another word of advice is to make sure you write your OWN lesson plans. There will always be someone who comes with something pre-fabricated. This is no good since lesson plans should be formed to how YOU would teach. The program is good and you still have to pass the same exact initial test as everybody else since the exam is taken with the FSDO. Mine was a fun filled 10 hour oral exam followed by a 2.5 hour flight the following day. :D

I guess I'm not really sure what a decent price is for getting your CFI CFII and MEI. Since examiner fees, books, etc are probably the same either way, I'll consider that a wash. For people that did any instructor rating at a part 61 FBO school, how much did that cost you?

I really don't think that $2333 per rating is excessive...maybe I'm clueless though.

Edit: Career Pilot School has an "Aviation Educator Course" where you get all three ratings for $9595 in 25 days.

Books: The FAA books are the only ones that are really fair-game. They're available for free in PDF format on the web. They worked well for me.

Fees: Man up and take your initial with a Fed. If you can pass with a DPE, you should pass with a Fed.

Get your initial CFI and maybe the CFII. Once you're instructing somewhere fly with a fellow instructor and get the signoff for the MEI and take it that way.

Also, a lot of places hire their CFIs from students that trained there. This is how I got my first job. If you plan on working somewhere that isn't ATP you might want to look into your local FBO.