Mitragorz

Ok, so I've admittedly never looked into banner towing, because I've never felt the need. I was cruising around the internet looking for some job opportunities to hold me over for a while, and I stumbled across Aerial Banners, Inc. They offer an FAA-Approved banner towing course. I've never heard of that, I always assumed it was more like a "tag along with a pilot until you get the hang of it" type of deal.

"Aerial Banners, Inc. offers a complete FAA APPROVED banner towing training program in compliance with F.A.R. 91.113 to all commercial rated pilots with a minimum of 300 hours."

Aerial Banners

91.113 deals with aircraft right-of-way

"Once you complete our training you will be observed by a designated FAA examiner assigned to Aerial Banners and you will be qualified to work for any banner towing company in the world and will have paperwork to prove it."

Is this guy legit? It seems fishy to me. Is he just trying to squeeze some money out of desperate low-time pilots who don't know any better? I can hear some poor kid saying "Oh wow, I can fly for any banner towing company in the WORLD if I do this training!!!"

Mitragorz

No input on this, eh?

Nortonious

Here's another thread: same topic, different outfit? Stories sound kinda similar. Keep us posted.

Banner Tow Thread

Cubdriver

This is another superfluous training program aimed at low time pilots. Whomever you get hired at $8/hr to tow banners should do your training. They are going to have to do it anyway to make you aware of the details of their specific operation.

Your responsibility is to have a tailwheel endorsement and enough hours to make you good at flying one. 50 hours would be about right before towing banners. You should pay for that of course, but not for operation-specific training which is the responsibility of the business. I think it would be ok however for the banner business to take a deposit on your staying with them some number of hours, or have you sign an agreement of some kind. They can't be training people for free and then losing them the next day.

Mitragorz

Yeah, I saw that thread. I was really looking to hear from someone who has towed banners, and could tell me about the training. An FAA-certified course is something I've never heard of.



I understand that they don't want people getting trained then splitting. I"ve only got about 20 hours in a tailwheel, but never got the endorsement because I was taking an aerobatics course, not a tailwheel course. One of their planes is a modified 172, so the tailwheel training may not be an issue, but that's beside the point.

Point is, I've just never heard of an FAA-approved banner towing training course. I mean, obviously you can get ANYTHING FAA-approved if you ask (hell, I could probably get the FAA to approve a specific way to give someone a high-five!) but it seems unnecessary. They say they send you up with an FAA examiner. Isn't that overkill?

I could be wrong, but I was always under the impression that banner towing training just required a few rides in a tow plane, and then a signoff or endorsement from the guy you flew with. Like I said, I've never really looked into banner towing, so I don't know if that's a correct assumption or not. And when searching the internet, and finding outfits with "training courses" like this, I'm not sure who to believe.

Cubdriver

14 CFR 91.311 requires anyone towing banners to have a certificate of waiver for their operation which is form 7711-2, APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF WAIVER OR AUTHORIZATION.

Banner towing outfits file this form with the local FSDO and they are specifically written to describe their particular tow operation to include pilot names, aircraft used, and so on. These are specific details. Is a tailor-made application and there could be any number of things imposed by the FAA for approval.

"Each first time banner pilot presented by the operator must be observed in pre-flight, banner pick-up, tow, and banner drop by the FSDO prior to assignment to a commercial banner tow flight." (FAA/FS-I-8700-1)

For example, the local FSDO may require the banners to stay out of some area during certain hours of the day. This is the main reason you don't want to pay for non-operation specific banner-tow training. The waiver requires the operation owner to train their pilots and must keep the statement of it on file. As such he is the authorized representative, but as quoted above, FAA still requires an observation flight to make sure brand new towpilots are ok to begin operations. This is probably what your school is advertising, but since training is required by the individual operation there is no reason to get it elsewhere.

INFORMATION FOR BANNER TOW OPERATIONS FAA/FS-I-8700-1 MarchFAA/FS-I-8700-1

You do need a tailwheel endorsement if you are flying a tailwheel airplane per the applicable Part 61 code. I suppose they use tricycle airplanes where you are going, which do not require the tailwheel signoff, but they still will have to train you how to use their hook, ropes and any other specific details listed in the application for waiver (above link).

Hope this helps.

Mitragorz

Thanks, Cubdriver, that helps a lot. I didn't realize that it was that involved. Sounds like this guy is in the right, then.

He hasn't gotten back to me, but at least I learned something new!

Cubdriver

There is nothing quite as fun as towing banners with an O-360 SuperCub. I did some banner towing in Atlanta one summer, but I do not remember having the FAA observation. Maybe they skipped it I am not sure. It was great learning experience. I recommend it highly for fresh commercial pilots, particularly beach towing ops. But be very careful since there are a lot of gotchas in it. You need to be good at tailwheel airplanes, good at stick and rudder especially in winds, and be good at staying up with the airplane while towing for hours at a time. All that plus being responsible for laying out the banner and packing it up, doing cross countries, and dodging other rag draggers at events makes it pretty challenging. The pay isn't any good as you know. Flight training is a much better proposition for time building in terms of risk exposure, pay, seasonality, and physical demand. I wouldn't want to do banner towing more than a summer or two.

BTDT

I got to have some fun flying banners while working for a skydiving outfit. The plane was unusual in that it was a 182. My training consisted of the chief pilot telling me to take off, get a little altitude and throw the hook out. He also reminded me not to snag the nosewheel picking it up. He stayed on the ground. Yeah, I thought it a bit different also but it was kinda like my Navajo checkout but that's a story for another day.

Picking up the banner was the most fun part. I'd trim the nose for 70, pick a glide angle and reduce power. As soon as I'd pass the poles the power went to full and Vx was held. Got lucky and never missed a pick up. Flying around Chicago was fun with the banner.