About to get a BSME/AE. I want to be a PILOT. Best way for me?
04-14-2006, 07:09 AM
#1
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About to get a BSME/AE. I want to be a PILOT. Best way for me?
As the topic says. I am graduating in 8 months and I want to become a pilot. Piloting is dream of mine that I had since childhood. I always wanted to fly, I think before I walked I had thoughts about flying. I need some help from you guys/gals recomending me a decent way to get the most hours at the best cost. I am not made of money and I have a bit of debt from the Bachelors. I dont want to get into more debt. I live in Norfolk VA and I was thinking about going to any FBO here as there are a few good ones... If anyone have a good idea please share it with me.
Thanks in advance
Alex
Thanks in advance
Alex
04-14-2006, 08:36 AM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
First congratulations on completing a challenging technical degree. That will help you in aviation, and also provide back-up skills if flying doesn't work out or takes a down-turn.
I'll summarize the usual path for civilian flight training, but first I would suggest that you attempt to get a fixed-wing military flying slot. This is the best path to a major airline job, because airlines prefer ex-military, your training is paid for, and you make good money while in the military. If you don't want to do active-duty military, you could get your civilian training then join the Air National Guard...numerous benefits there.
Civilian Training: What airlines want is ratings and flight experience. They don't care where you got them (unless it was in the military). You will need Private (PVT), Instrument (IR), Commercial(COM), Mutli-engine(ME), Flight Instructor (CFI), Instrument Instructor (CFII), and Multi-engine Instructor (MEI). This should cost roughly $35K at your local airport or at most small/medium size schools. WARNING: There are numerous small-time scam artists and large "glossy-brochure" flight schools who will try to sell you on the idea that their training is "better" or that you need ADDITIONAL jet or airline operations training. They will usually want to charge you $60K-100k+ for their unnecessary crappola. Since the FAA sets and closely monitors training standards, most schools and instructors meet the requirements. You need to find one that will get your basic ratings done in a reasonable time (6-8 months full-time) and won't charge double what they should. Try to find a LOCAL school, every town has them...if you move across country and find yourself in a scam, it's hard to go back. Also any school that wants ALL of your money up front is a big red flag...walk away immediately. You will want to pay in installments of 1K or 2K max. Remember some of the biggest schools with the smoothest fast-talking salesmen are the biggest scams...the bigger the brochure, the bigger the lies.
Flight Instructor: Now that you have your ratings and 250-300 hours, you can get a job as a CFI, probably teaching PVT, COM, and IR students in single-engine airplanes. You will do this for 1-2 years until you 1000+ total time (TT). You will also need 100+ multi-engine time (ME)...you can get a job as an MEI or maybe just rent 100 hours worth of airplane time ($$$). CFIs and MEI's make $10K-30K/year
Night Cargo: Next step is flying overnight packages from small towns. You will start in small single-engine, single pilot airplanes that are often poorly maintained, and fly in night, weather, mountain, and probably icing conditions...if this sounds dangerous, that's because it is! You will usually do this for 6-18 months. Pay is $20-25K. If you have a degree (you will) and hiring is good you may be able to skip this step and go from CFI to regional airline.
Regional Airline. You will start out as a turbo-prop or small jet (Regional Jet or RJ) first officer (FO). This will pay $15-20K at first. You will fly as an FO until your seniority allows you to upgrade to captain (2-12 years). Once you upgrade to captain you will be acquiring turbine (jet) Pilot-in-Command time (PIC), making $30K-70K. Turbine PIC is what the major airlines require in their candidates. How you got it doesn't matter as much as the fact that you have it. A this point you probably have 5000+ TT. An F-16 pilot with 1500 TT will have 1000+ PIC because he is always the PIC in an F-16.
Major Airline: Once you meet the minumum experience requirements, competetion is severe. You engineering degree will help, and they will look at other "whole-person" factors as well. If you get a job at a major airline, life will be pretty good in the long run.
Notes: The estimated times at each job assume no catastrophic 9/11 like events. This would delay hiring for a period of time.
You will need an FAA First Class medical to be an airline pilot. Get one before you start training to make sure you qualify.
Get a PVT license first BEFORE you commit yourself to professional pilot training. Make sure you actually enjoy flying.
Expect to get furloughed at some point in your career...there are a lot of ups and downs in this industry.
You need to have no criminal record and NO DUIs. A very minor incident when you were young (< 20) would probably not be too big a deal.
Remember: Be wary of flight schools that want to rip you off...anyone who says the airlines "prefer" their graduates is lying. Airlines prefer pilots who have appropriate ratings and flight experience. Visit any school before signing up, and talk to some instructors and students, not just the salesmen.
There are a FEW shortcuts to an airline job, but they are expensive and have potential negatives...do your research if you think you want to do a shortcut program.
I'll summarize the usual path for civilian flight training, but first I would suggest that you attempt to get a fixed-wing military flying slot. This is the best path to a major airline job, because airlines prefer ex-military, your training is paid for, and you make good money while in the military. If you don't want to do active-duty military, you could get your civilian training then join the Air National Guard...numerous benefits there.
Civilian Training: What airlines want is ratings and flight experience. They don't care where you got them (unless it was in the military). You will need Private (PVT), Instrument (IR), Commercial(COM), Mutli-engine(ME), Flight Instructor (CFI), Instrument Instructor (CFII), and Multi-engine Instructor (MEI). This should cost roughly $35K at your local airport or at most small/medium size schools. WARNING: There are numerous small-time scam artists and large "glossy-brochure" flight schools who will try to sell you on the idea that their training is "better" or that you need ADDITIONAL jet or airline operations training. They will usually want to charge you $60K-100k+ for their unnecessary crappola. Since the FAA sets and closely monitors training standards, most schools and instructors meet the requirements. You need to find one that will get your basic ratings done in a reasonable time (6-8 months full-time) and won't charge double what they should. Try to find a LOCAL school, every town has them...if you move across country and find yourself in a scam, it's hard to go back. Also any school that wants ALL of your money up front is a big red flag...walk away immediately. You will want to pay in installments of 1K or 2K max. Remember some of the biggest schools with the smoothest fast-talking salesmen are the biggest scams...the bigger the brochure, the bigger the lies.
Flight Instructor: Now that you have your ratings and 250-300 hours, you can get a job as a CFI, probably teaching PVT, COM, and IR students in single-engine airplanes. You will do this for 1-2 years until you 1000+ total time (TT). You will also need 100+ multi-engine time (ME)...you can get a job as an MEI or maybe just rent 100 hours worth of airplane time ($$$). CFIs and MEI's make $10K-30K/year
Night Cargo: Next step is flying overnight packages from small towns. You will start in small single-engine, single pilot airplanes that are often poorly maintained, and fly in night, weather, mountain, and probably icing conditions...if this sounds dangerous, that's because it is! You will usually do this for 6-18 months. Pay is $20-25K. If you have a degree (you will) and hiring is good you may be able to skip this step and go from CFI to regional airline.
Regional Airline. You will start out as a turbo-prop or small jet (Regional Jet or RJ) first officer (FO). This will pay $15-20K at first. You will fly as an FO until your seniority allows you to upgrade to captain (2-12 years). Once you upgrade to captain you will be acquiring turbine (jet) Pilot-in-Command time (PIC), making $30K-70K. Turbine PIC is what the major airlines require in their candidates. How you got it doesn't matter as much as the fact that you have it. A this point you probably have 5000+ TT. An F-16 pilot with 1500 TT will have 1000+ PIC because he is always the PIC in an F-16.
Major Airline: Once you meet the minumum experience requirements, competetion is severe. You engineering degree will help, and they will look at other "whole-person" factors as well. If you get a job at a major airline, life will be pretty good in the long run.
Notes: The estimated times at each job assume no catastrophic 9/11 like events. This would delay hiring for a period of time.
You will need an FAA First Class medical to be an airline pilot. Get one before you start training to make sure you qualify.
Get a PVT license first BEFORE you commit yourself to professional pilot training. Make sure you actually enjoy flying.
Expect to get furloughed at some point in your career...there are a lot of ups and downs in this industry.
You need to have no criminal record and NO DUIs. A very minor incident when you were young (< 20) would probably not be too big a deal.
Remember: Be wary of flight schools that want to rip you off...anyone who says the airlines "prefer" their graduates is lying. Airlines prefer pilots who have appropriate ratings and flight experience. Visit any school before signing up, and talk to some instructors and students, not just the salesmen.
There are a FEW shortcuts to an airline job, but they are expensive and have potential negatives...do your research if you think you want to do a shortcut program.
Last edited by rickair7777; 04-14-2006 at 08:40 AM.
04-14-2006, 10:51 AM
#3
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I cannot do military as I am not an USA Citizen yet. Even if I was I wouldnt want to do the military as they are NOT most likely use me as a pilot, but as an engineer. Its more efficient to them. Just about everyone with good health and good vision can be a military pilot, not every one can be an engineer, specially since they didnt pay for my career. For I have been reading here a FBO will be my best bet. I am going to do my PPL first as you mentioned...
Alex
Alex
04-14-2006, 09:53 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by AgonzAPC
I cannot do military as I am not an USA Citizen yet. Even if I was I wouldnt want to do the military as they are NOT most likely use me as a pilot, but as an engineer. Its more efficient to them. Just about everyone with good health and good vision can be a military pilot, not every one can be an engineer, specially since they didnt pay for my career. For I have been reading here a FBO will be my best bet. I am going to do my PPL first as you mentioned...
Most branches of the military will offer you a guaranteed flight contract. However, if you fail to complete your training who knows where you would end up.
04-14-2006, 10:12 PM
#5
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Once again I am CUBAN..... I have a feeling its going to be what ever they want. I am about to be an engineer and most likely they are going to use me as an engineer. If you have any real life examples similar to my situation, please share them with me.
Alex
Alex
04-15-2006, 03:41 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by AgonzAPC
Just about everyone with good health and good vision can be a military pilot, not every one can be an engineer, specially since they didnt pay for my career...
Alex
Alex
04-15-2006, 09:28 AM
#7
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Have you been around USA military Pilots? I live in Norfolk and there is a few Navy Bases. I also know some Airforce Pilots. They arent very smart. Only a small percent of the population has bad eye site, health. There are alot of FAT people growing up in the reasent years, but thats their fault. I know for what I have seen that alot of people can indeed become and engineer, but they strugle and have to take the classes three times to achieve a C+. I dont think those individuals were meant to be engineers.
I have 20/20 (it might be 20/15 which is even better). I am 5'10", I am big bone for my heigh (not FAT) so that might or might not go well and they like SKINNY guys to fit in the small places. I never get sick. I talked to the Airforce and they told me that I would have to get a private in onder to even qualify.
Alex
I have 20/20 (it might be 20/15 which is even better). I am 5'10", I am big bone for my heigh (not FAT) so that might or might not go well and they like SKINNY guys to fit in the small places. I never get sick. I talked to the Airforce and they told me that I would have to get a private in onder to even qualify.
Alex
04-15-2006, 10:36 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by AgonzAPC
Have you been around USA military Pilots? I live in Norfolk and there is a few Navy Bases. I also know some Airforce Pilots. They arent very smart. Only a small percent of the population has bad eye site, health. There are alot of FAT people growing up in the reasent years, but thats their fault. I know for what I have seen that alot of people can indeed become and engineer, but they strugle and have to take the classes three times to achieve a C+. I dont think those individuals were meant to be engineers.
I have 20/20 (it might be 20/15 which is even better). I am 5'10", I am big bone for my heigh (not FAT) so that might or might not go well and they like SKINNY guys to fit in the small places. I never get sick. I talked to the Airforce and they told me that I would have to get a private in onder to even qualify.
Alex
I have 20/20 (it might be 20/15 which is even better). I am 5'10", I am big bone for my heigh (not FAT) so that might or might not go well and they like SKINNY guys to fit in the small places. I never get sick. I talked to the Airforce and they told me that I would have to get a private in onder to even qualify.
Alex
Last edited by Slice; 04-15-2006 at 10:40 AM.
04-15-2006, 11:14 AM
#9
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Wow dude..... You are are taking it a bit too hard....I want to be a PILOT because I has always LOVED it. I dont care about money as long as I make enough to have food and a decent roof. Why do you have to bring Castro or nationallity into this topic? I can make a whole lot more as an engineer and ahh yeah I might not be 100% capable of writting english correctly, but I was also never capable with spanish. I have never been the literature buff. Yeah I have gotten all As in my engineering courses if you ask and yeah I have gotten Bs and Cs in the english ones. I never said the Military pilots were dumb, I simply said the ones that I have met werent very smart. This is a forum and I am not trying to impress anyone just simply typing convey a message. I think you are over yourself. I hope the military is treating you well.
Alex
Alex
04-15-2006, 11:14 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by AgonzAPC
Wow dude..... You are are taking it a bit too hard....I want to be a PILOT because I has always LOVED it. I dont care about money as long as I make enough to have food and a decent roof. Why do you have to bring Castro or nationallity into this topic? I can make a whole lot more as an engineer and ahh yeah I might not be 100% capable of writting english correctly, but I was also never capable with spanish. I have never been the literature buff. Yeah I have gotten all As in my engineering courses if you ask and yeah I have gotten Bs and Cs in the english ones. I never said the Military pilots were dumb, I simply said the ones that I have met werent very smart. This is a forum and I am not trying to impress anyone just simply typing convey a message. I think you are over yourself. I hope the military is treating you well.
The only person that is "not very smart" is you. This board is comprised of many military pilots and other aviation related personnel. How "smart" is it to insult military aviators yet ask them for info? Hah, good luck...dude.
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