Loggin passenger time??
 

Hello,

I'm new here. I work in the medical profession and spend many hours flying as medical crew in fixed wing and rotor wing.

I would like to fly as a hobby.

There was a post that said you could "try to hitch a ride" in the backseat of a training flight. Is this loggable time?? Is that time good for anything.

Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?

A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).

The same company providing the planes is the same one that I would get my license through. Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?

Thanks ahead of time for responses.

-T

There was a post that said you could "try to hitch a ride" in the backseat of a training flight. Is this loggable time?? Is that time good for anything.

no and no. You can learn a lot from riding backseat, but it doesn't count for anything.

Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?

no

A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).

no you cannot

The same company providing the planes is the same one that I would get my license through. Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?

yes

Basically, you can't log anything at all unless it's with a certified instructor. In your current position, you may even have the chance to fly the aircraft, but if the pilot is not an instructor, you still can't log it.

I thought so... Too good to be true. I guess if it was a CFI that I knew it would work, but might be scetchy on "company time".

Thanks for all the blatent NO's, though. Seriously, thanks for the reply.

It's good learning time if anything.

Take Care...

Is the flying 135? or 91? I think if it's 91 and the PIC is a CFI, and willing to sign your logbook, there is no reason to not log the right seat as dual received/training time. How useful a lot of this sort of time is depends on the situation. Having 300 hours of dual received looks weird in your logbook when you solo, but I don't see any reason not to log it if you can. Just have a good explaination for it.

Backseat time is totally unloggable for your situation.

My answers are different than some of the above... this should get fun :D

No (this answer we all agree on). Backseat time is valuable for learning the aircraft and the procedures, but it cannot be logged for anything.

Yes... you can log this, as long as you meet the following conditions:

1. The leg is flown under Part 91
2. The PIC is an MEI or ATP who signs your logbook for Dual instruction.

Indeed... it's good experience even if you can't log PIC.

Yes... see above. The PIC could also be an ATP per FAR 61.167, which states:

I would argue that an ATP can't just give flight instruction to anyone, only to pilots that work (as pilots) for the organization the ATP works for.

(b) An airline transport pilot may instruct--

(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, ...

ts39136 is not a pilot, so this is not applicable.

Sorry for being so blunt in the first post, but I had to rush off to work. I think it's great that you're interested in aviation, but the unfortunate thing is there is no feasible (and legal) way to get around the system that's been set up. Believe me, I know. Many many pilots have tried, but everybody ends up taking one of the "traditional" routes in one way or another.

The way I interpret that reg (and it's always possible I'm wrong, but this is how I understand it), is that if ts39136 has a student pilot certificate and medical, then he is a pilot, and he can be instructed by an ATP in "air transportation service" in the aircraft that the ATP is properly rated in.

The instruction can't count towards his PPL rating (for example), because he's being instructed in "air transportation service", not the tasks needed for a PPL, but it's still instruction that can be logged for TT and PIC.

If the PIC of the jet is also an MEI, then any instruction is fair game without question.

Assuming it's part 91. That's the real kicker. Can't wait to find out....

I think you are incorrect. The "in air transportation service" limitation applies to both the ATP-instructor and the pilot. IOW, "Sec. 61.169 authorizes an airline transport pilot to give flight instruction which may be logged by the recipient for the purpose of obtaining an airline transport pilot certificate, only if the recipient is engaged in air transportation service." (1976 FAA Chief Counsel opinion).

It's notThe overall idea is to have company ATPs instruct company pilots.

Now, if you can find a student pilot who is already engaged as a company pilot...

WOW... I thought this conversation was over. Sounds like piloting is kind of like medicine... A lot of "gray areas".

My intention is to go to flight school get at least a private and move on from there. I would love to do aviation as a career, but I really can't justify giving up my salary. (I'm 33). So... If I could build time to the point that I could do CFI or part time or seasonal charter flying, that would be ideal.

No, I'm not trying to scoot the system.

It is part 91, I do know that much.

Thanks for all the vauable insight.

-T

There are some gray areas. But there are a lot more that are just fairly technical and not that well understood by most pilots, even if the answers are pretty clear (which is different than being gray).

People were just trying to figure out a way that it could be logged but bottom line is that, for you, unless the PIC is a CFI and willing to teach you and endorse your logbook, there's just no way.

Makes sense. The only thing we haven't done is "holding maneuvers", if ya know what I mean.

That Lima Fox seems to get you into anywhere in a hurry.

Well, I hope you all enjoy being in the air as much as me.

Good luck to all.

"unless the PIC is a CFI and willing to teach you and endorse your logbook, there's just no way."

Agreed. Let us know how it turns out.

Could very well be that the PIC is also an MEI. Most people don't let those CFI tickets expire once they get them (who wants to do another checkride :D)

Awe c'mon guys, I log PIC if I'm in the first 10 rows- even when I'm deadheading.;) And if a pax asks me anything, that's dual right there!:)

I knew there was a quicker way to get to bigger and better things!!!

This is correct. But there is even more involved. Before an ATP can instruct/check in "air transportation service" he/she must have reach a certain level of experience in the aircraft (usually at least 500 hours of line PIC time), undergo in-house training, including observation rides, and then in the case of becoming a check airman, must be observed by a FAA inspector while performing the type of checking the ATP will do. Lastly, they must receive a LOA from the FAA regarding the type of instructing/checking permitted. The average ATP on the line may not instruct in any legal way without that LOA, and then only in their company's FAA approved training program to their company's pilots. This would include type ratings for company aircraft, and if necessary, initial ATP certificates.

With the exception noted above, only FAA certified flight instructors may give flight instruction to students persuing FAA certificates and ratings.

Thanks for the info! Very interesting information... I guess I learn something new every day (not much experience with ATP candidates here, and not an ATP myself)