Do I Want To Do This?
 

Yeah, yeah I know you guys have gotten these threads before, but it's so different when you're the one asking...

I'd bore you with my story about how I got into aviation and how much I love it and blah blah blah, but I'll just let you assume that I love it to death, and I honestly cannot see myself being happy doing anything else because that's the truth.

I'm presently a student at U Miami, but I'm wondering if I want to transfer to a place like UND or something similar. I know the deal about doing an aviation major, and I wouldn't do it. Right now, I have my PPL and IR, and I can't do anything past that cause of money and time. If I went to UND, I could pick up all my ratings.

I have heard from so many regional guys and even people at the majors how much it sucks. It hurts to have your life dream shat on like that by reality, but I guess that's, well, reality. I just want to be able to do what I love, have a relatively normal life, normal family, and hopefully a few years in, at least a normal paycheck.

Do what I love, or...?

Now, the reason I want to go to UND is because it opens up a bunch more options for me. ATC has always been in the picture, too. Maybe I could do that. Or if I decide to stick with the flying route, I could do that. Or say I decide to do neither, well, that could work too. Agree? Disagree? Comments, suggestions, opinions, thoughts? All I know right now is that I hope to do something involving aviation. I feel like it's all I'd be happy doing. So, if you'd be so kind, please take that into account, and everything else I've said too.

Try not to let me down too hard...I think I smell what's coming.

Aviation: Don't love her man, she will only break your heart!

I'll tell you what. Aviation is what it is. We complain all the time about work rules and being on the road, but the fact is that aviation is a lifestyle choice.

I love being gone. I love being home even more. I love the fact that I leave work at work. I don't complain about going on a 4 day, or 5 or 6 day now.

So i guess what I'm saying is that it is easy to love aviation. That is why everyone responds to "im a pilot" with " (I, my uncle steve, my dad, my sister, my neighbor's hairdresser's son, my UPS man) has his private pilot's license."

The lifestyle of a professional aviator is NOT easy to love.....for some. Me? I'm going to be a pilot all my life. I love the lifestyle.

ATC aint flying

?!?!

Um, thanks for the clarification??

Well you don't see yourself happy doing anything else correct?

Whats ATC or the program containing that at UND have to do with anything?

I know I personally will not be happy not flying. Working at ATC to me would make not flying worse.

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. No, ATC wouldn't be a replacement necessarily. I've also wanted to do that a lot of my life too. It's right up there with flying.

Ok.

Couldn't figure out initially why that was included :cool:

Flying for a living is like a breakfast of Bacon,Eggs, and Orange juice.

Chicken and the tree contributed but the PIG....well the Pig was committed. ;)

BTW the ATC guys I know are about as miserable with the pay/working conditions as regional F/O's.

Seems the same deal as pilots...was a good deal way back when but salaries and QOL has fallen dramatically in ATC

But remember getting a job being a controller will probably be a lot easier then getting a job being a cfi or even a regional pilot. Lots of regional and major people got furloaded and went back to instructing that you have to compete with. And pay for being in ATC is also a lot better compared to an entry level cfi that is trying to get more students.

atc shotclock: 31st birthday

airline shotclock: 65th birthday

you could always work a tower then peck around in the planes on the side until something plane related came along

Ok, appreciate the input on that stuff. However, the two main questions still remain: #1: Should I do what I love even though so many complain about it? I think at least before I had a family, I'd love it..maybe I've been reading too many of SkyHigh's posts? #2: Should I go to UND and transfer from UM? I know (think) I want to do something related to aviation. I really don't feel like I'd be happy doing anything else.

I wouldn't read too much into Skyhigh. His is a worst case example. I've been in the career longer than him and I can honestly say none of my professional pilot friends have ended up like Skyhigh.

It's always good to know about the worst case scenario but don't think that everyone ends up in the same boat.

Do what you love! If that is aviation or business or whatever it may be, just make sure you love what you do. Coming from UND don't come here if you already have your PPL and IR it would be a waste of money. They would make you do a bunch of check courses that would run you to much money. Like it has been said many times before get your ratings at an FBO finish at Miami and then see if you want to fly professionally.

And about the money and time issue. Fly when you can and what you can pay for when you are in school and then maybe take 6 months when you graduate to finish all the ratings. UND, between weather and other factors, will cost you a lot more in the long run.

1. Yes, you should do what you love, with the caveats: 1) it can make you poor, and 2) you don't generally get as much control of the thing as you might think, unless you own the jet.
2. No, there's no need to go all the way to N. Dakota for flight school, unless, perhaps, you're from there or have friends or family there. There are plenty of four-year degree programs down south. I'm sure UND is a great program, but big picture, if you find a Part 141 school at a college, then it'll be safe and well-regulated.

Zach

Do it before you have a family. Its a great single-person lifestyle to have. If your young and can hold off on the family thing for a while go for it. I know people on both sides of that and I can truly say that the single guys have a much better time of it. Look at Sky's(family guy) and DE's(single guy) post, exact polar opposites in their views aviation. Any captain/FO I flew with or know who actually loves or puts their family first has alot more jaded view of the industry...

Do you need to go to UND? Nope, I knew someone that went there and his debt is up there(in the $100,000 range). Go to an FBO like everyone said and pay to play as you go. You will not enjoy making $24,000 with a $400-800 monthly payment for school loans.

Sounds like you want to be in aviation, go for it. Thats the great thing about life, if you find that you don't like it go find something else you enjoy doing. Flying should be just one aspect of your life, not your whole entire defining meaning for existing...

Well I'm surprised to find a fellow cane on here, who'd of thunk it. I'm a junior at UM, also debating the flying career vs. alternate, trying to pursue both at the moment. I just have my private rating for now, and will likely work on the instrument this summer pending the internship situation...

Out of curiosity, what FBO do you fly out of down here? I've been keeping myself current flying out of TMB, but all the rental places there pretty well blow it seems like, I've been debating heading over to OPF for a while now, which seems like really isn't that much further from campus.

Its a great job, bad career. If you dont mind making sacrifices and compromises to do what you love then you will be happy. It may take you a long time with many set backs to get to where your "normal" friends are in the house/wife/kids situation. Good luck, PM me if you have any specific questions.

Sullenberger
 

If you don't believe me then what about Captain Sullenberger?

"I don't know a single professional pilot who would recommend that their children follow in their footsteps,"

Everyone has dreams. At some point you will have to make grown up decisions that will greatly effect the rest of your life. Everyone here feels the same as you do about aviation. Sadly however the reality just does not match up with our dreams and expectations.

If you are a loner who has few expectations of life beyond the flight deck then knock yourself out. However if you have a girlfriend and enjoy a normal lifestyle with friends and family then perhaps you need to make some hard choices.

You can survive letting go of a few dreams. In life we all have to cull the ones that are unrealistic or come at too high a price. Know yourself and be prepared to sacrifice. I would remain at Miami U. Finish whatever it is that you are currently studying and then pursue aviation if you are still inclined.

Skyhigh

So many variables. Does your wife make a good living? Are you able to move, most likely multiple times, uprooting your family over and over? Or can you stomach commuting? Is it ok that there is a good chance you will never make it to a major? Lots of people get into flying thinking about flying large jets internationally. More then half the planes out there are flown at regional airlines. I would suggest limiting you debt. The quick upgrade thru growth at the regional airline is done for. That means being an fo for 3, 4, or more years, at best making $24-$25k a year. That doesn't go far if you are the primary income maker trying to pay down debt. You will be furloughed at one point always be prepared. Flying is fun. Destinations can be nice. Remember flying can be fun but a job's purpose is to feed you family. Now I am not saying I can't feed my family but as a family we may be moving in with parents. If I were single this would be a great job, but I would rather have my family.

Find a real job that pays well and no chance of being furloughed. Then buy an airplane and fly for fun.

moving from Florida to UND would be a huge change in your lifestyle all together.. take it from me, i moved from hawaii to here (UND) and MAN it was a big change.. honestly, if you're motivated enough i dont think going to UND is necessary.. i am not really sure how your ratings will transfer but i'd recommend calling in and speaking with one of the lead instructors. by the way, you'll love the weather.

just as everyone has said here...

you really have to love it to make a living at it...

if you go through with it you will find your self many a times throughout your career path saying "I wish I never did this..." or "How did I end up here...?"...

you just need to be able to ask yourself this and still wake up in the morning with a little dignity; if you think you can do that...then have at it...

Get a bachelors in something you like. Whatever you want. I got my BoS-CRJ so I would have a fallback. I decided to go the flight route so I have to finish up my Commercial ATC. If you decide to go the ATC route you do not need a specific degree for it although it may be more help. Airlines don't care if you have a Aerospace Science BoS or a Pouring Coffee Bachelors as long as it is a Bachelors Degree from a accredited college.

Here is a circumstance to consider.

I made 23k last year. I paid 12k in student loans.

I do not for see an upgrade to captain any time soon (like more than a few years even). My credit card debt is getting more and more for things i NEED.

The cost of flight training will go up, while the pay will not (maybe even go down).

I agree with this post, top to bottom. I personally was in the same postion (19, private pilots license, debated on an aviation degree) and went against it. Im now attending school for a business degree. Am I gonna fly when I graduate? If the industry stays like this, no.

As much as I hate to say it, right now its not worth it. Maybe if things start to go uphill, yea, ill consider it. but for now I am fine with finishing school and flying 172's.

As said above, do what you love. If flying privately wont cut it for you, then thats understandable. but having something to fall back on is a great thing. The last degree I would go for right now is one in aviation. I made my decision because of this forum. kinda funny, ha.

My .02
 

I went to a major university program and althought the training was top notch, the cost was also almost 2 times more than doing it outside at an FBO or ATP style academy. If you love it, don't let everyone scare you away. Give it a shot, but don't back your self up with an aviation related degree...that'd be about the equivalent of a doctor backing his career up with a degree in dump truck driving=worthless. Stay at UM, finish your degree in something you wouldn't mind doing if things don't work out. Take advantage of the prime flying weather that Florida has to offer and explore your training options both part 61 and 141 to find what will work best with your schedule. Last but not least, don't be one of these guys who expects to get his CMEL and 25 hrs multi and go straight to a regional. Those days are long gone, plan on becoming a CFI and spending atleast 2 years building time while probably working a 2nd job to pay the bills. The industry is flooded with young, qualified individuals right now, some with 1000's of part 121 time. Best of luck, if it's all you can think about it give it a shot. You'll learn quickly whether or not being a professional pilot is all you dreame it would be or not. Stay modest, train hard, and do whatever you can to make your self that much more marketable than the guy next to you come interview time. Feel free to PM with questions, I'd be happy to offer my perspective.

-Spank

teddymon check your PMs.
AeroTS - You can't accept PMs right now, but drop me an email if you see this: Corny357 (at) gmail.com

As for everyone else: I really do appreciate the responses and advice. Let me throw something else out there. I really feel it would be too difficult to carve ratings out of time I do not have in college. I simply do not have the hours in a day to do it, and believe it or not (flight costs included), UND would be CHEAPER than UM is right now. Don't even go there. I know.

So what say you all about that? Same responses and advice? I also understand that the people that are happy doing this job are those that love it (I do) and those that don't have a wife/kids (I don't). Those that are unhappy have a family to take of. Is that a correct assessment?

There's a line in the first Matrix movie about how the "first matrix" was a happy place but the human brains couldn't stand it, thus whole crops were lost.

People that have time to spend on internet forums are generally not out there with a family spending time with that family.

They may be pilots stuck in shoddy hotels with somewhat working internet connections, 12 y/o's pretending to be somebody, or folks that hate the world and want to bring everyone down. They might even be folks that try to share their experiences, in the hopes that someone else will avoid the pitfalls along the path of life.

Some might not want a family with the 2.5 kids, the dog, and a white picket fence. Some might not want that until their own career is established. For some, it's the most important thing there is.

If you spend a bunch of time online, you'll generally see lots of complaining. It's easier to complain than to get up and do something about it. It's far easier to destroy than to build. Negative Nancy's probably outnumber Pollyannas 10 to 1 online. Flights are long, hopefully boring, and many times, it's the same person next to you, so you've already told all your stories, so you have to go online to let that stuff out, and what usually comes out is complaints.

It took 3 years of working in a cubicle before I decided to leave that very lucrative career and step into the aviation world full-time. Only one year did I match the income I had from that previous life, the rest of the time, money has been tight, but I still get my newfangled computer or gadget generally when I want, if not within a few months. We've got more opportunities and wealth now than my grandparents had during the Great Depression, money isn't that tight. With that, I'm one of the happiest people I know, with hundreds of pilot friends around the world who are also the happiest people I know. I have dozens of business-owner clients, also happy people, doing what they love to do, and, enjoying flying as a hobby. There are a few that see flying merely as a tool to allow them more time with their families, however, I see them flying on the weekends showing their kids and grandkids how to fly, much as other parents would be showing their kids how to sail, change the oil in a car, hunt, fish, or make a quilt. Of those clients that have a business, they enjoy the challenge of owning and running that business. The most successful ones are doing what they love.

Flying is not all puppies and warm fuzzies, and not good stuff does happen. That not good stuff, the roughage of life, will happen in aviation, owning a business, working for someone else, or even not working and being on welfare. I think the roughage is part of life to make us appreciate the good stuff more. I nearly quit one flying job over the frustration of trying to get a parking permit, this after six weeks of training and who knows how many thousands of dollars of opportunity cost. I stuck with it and got rewarded by being able to look DOWN on another of the company's aircraft from the front seat while in flight during a gorgeous sunset. Ya can't get that in flight sim.

If you're lucky, you find out what you love and do that when you're young. If you really love it, the roughage will be overcome by the love. If you don't, it's perfectly okay to move on to something else. You can do something else for awhile, decide you don't like it, and then decide to do something else. You're not married to a company, and no worries, no company is married to you. You'll have to decide if you want to put up with the cold and snow that is UND. Or find something more local as there are plenty of colleges with aviation programs including several in Florida. There's even online colleges that allow student loan funds to be spent on flight training.

Flying and a family can be compatible, same with those in the military on long deployments with families. It can be done. It requires, *GASP*, some hard work to make the relationship work, but it can be done. If I ever get around to wanting a husband, I'd want that husband to be a pilot as we share the same language. I don't want someone that is going to be complaining about my being gone pursuing what I love. I fully expect him to pursue what he loves and when we are together, we're sharing mutual passions. This means both of us are going to have to compromise, share, find compatibilities, and work together on a relationship. It's not going to be all puppies and warm fuzzies, but the warm fuzzies will greatly outnumber the roughage.

Bottom line: It's up to you to decide you are going to enjoy the present while preparing for a future that you will also enjoy. How you get there is your decision.

Great post! For some reason i find this really motivating! Thanks!

Wow. That's gonna be one of the best posts I've ever read on here. Thank you so much.

If you have to ask yourself that question, then don't do it. You have to fly becuase you love it, otherwise all the hard work you will have put in will be for nothing when you get furloughed and move on to plan be, and don't come back. Not everyone gets furghloughed, but those that are unsure if this is what they want, usually don't come back when they do.

"Those that are unhappy have a family to take of. Is that a correct assessment?"

I don't think that's correct at all. I think having a family does make it harder and more of a challenge, however, I know many pilots who have successfully balanced the famliy/career challenge and are still happy with the job.

I would say you need a spouse who is independant. One who has their own life and doesn't need you around every moment to solve every problem. One who can take care of themselves and is happy in doing so. One who knows/understands your career choice before starting a family.

I'm happily a single guy, but by far most pilots I know have a family and aren't sorry they became pilots. I think this is a career you marry, as well, to some extent. But I think most careers are like that.