Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Flight Schools and Training
MEI sign off for solo pvt SEL students >

MEI sign off for solo pvt SEL students

Notices
Flight Schools and Training Ratings, building hours, airmanship, CFI topics

MEI sign off for solo pvt SEL students

Old 02-14-2009, 12:48 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
WmuGrad07's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 267
Default MEI sign off for solo pvt SEL students

During ground school for my MEI one of the students in my class with me asked an interesting question. So say you've got a student who has their pvt SEL and they're working on getting their Multi com, or even just a pvt Multi add on. The question was how would you sign that person off to solo the twin?

My MEI instructor is going to call the FSDO on monday. He spoke with a DE and he said just a logbook endorsement. Which doesn't sound wrong, but with a student pilot you have to sign their medical for make and model for solo as well as their logbook. And if just the logbook sign off would you need a presolo written, 90 day initial/multi endoresment also? It's just confusing because in both cases, working on the com ME, or the pvt me add on, they already have a pilots license however need something to solo in a twin.

It's pretty cut and dry if they're a student pilot going for a private multi and only flying multi. You'd have the same sign offs as a SEL private student. It becomes a gray area if they already have their private SEL and want to solo a twin.
WmuGrad07 is offline  
Old 02-14-2009, 01:01 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
250 or point 65's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Default

I hate to be this guy cause I love these kind of questions, but I'm not sure there's an insurance company out there that approves soloing a twin prior to being rated in it.

Also, once they have their private, there is no need for solo requirements for an add on.

There's also no requirement to solo the twin for a multi comm initial
250 or point 65 is offline  
Old 02-14-2009, 02:31 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
joepilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 747 Captain (Ret,)
Posts: 800
Cool

I think that the only time this question would really arise is if the student in question actually owned the twin, and had enough money that he really didn't care about insurance.

Joe
joepilot is offline  
Old 02-14-2009, 02:59 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TheSultanofScud's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Any port in the storm
Posts: 235
Default

Train em up like a student pilot, and give them the following endorsement for solo requirements.

62. To act as PIC of an aircraft in solo operations when the pilot does not hold an appropriate category/class rating: section 61.31(d)(3).

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the training as required by section 61.31(d)(3) to serve as a PIC in a (category and class of aircraft). I have determined that he/she is prepared to serve as PIC in that (make and model of aircraft).

/s/ [date] J. J. Jones 987654321CFI Exp. 12-31-05

From the true legal standpoint of the regs, you don't need a presolo written or any of that nonsense...BUT, your local FSDO may tell you that a presolo written+student pilot signoff is required (in their opinion).

From a theoretical standpoint, the above sign-off from AC 61-65E should be enough. From the local FSDO's opinion, you may have to treat them like a student pilot...this is what happened to me when I had to solo to add on my glider rating.
TheSultanofScud is offline  
Old 02-14-2009, 06:24 PM
  #5  
Line Holder
 
Equinox's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Furloughed, disgruntled
Posts: 63
Default

Why does the student need to solo the twin? Do the solo cross-countries in a single. I can't believe any insurance company or legitimate flight school would endorse a student soloing a twin until rated.

I'ts not that big a deal....the student saves money by doing cross-country in a single. It only takes about 8-10 hours of dual to train for a m.e. check-ride.
Equinox is offline  
Old 02-14-2009, 06:45 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TheSultanofScud's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Any port in the storm
Posts: 235
Default

I'm under the impression this was just a hypothetical question(?)
TheSultanofScud is offline  
Old 02-14-2009, 09:13 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
WmuGrad07's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 267
Default

Originally Posted by TheSultanofScud View Post
I'm under the impression this was just a hypothetical question(?)
Yes, it's a hypothetical question brought up during an ground school for the MEI checkride.

Not that I plan on signing someone off to solo a twin without the license, and I know how insurance for twins requires a lot of time...

It's a class room hypothetical question.
WmuGrad07 is offline  
Old 02-15-2009, 05:23 AM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
Default

Originally Posted by WmuGrad07 View Post
It becomes a gray area if they already have their private SEL and want to solo a twin.
What's gray about it? "Gray" means the answer isn't clear, not that you don't know it.

Sultan gave a very clear answer. It's covered in 61.31 and the FAA even has a form endorsement for it. in black and white.
NoyGonnaDoIt is offline  
Old 02-15-2009, 05:53 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
ryan1234's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: USAF
Posts: 1,398
Default

Originally Posted by 250 or point 65 View Post
I hate to be this guy cause I love these kind of questions, but I'm not sure there's an insurance company out there that approves soloing a twin prior to being rated in it.

Also, once they have their private, there is no need for solo requirements for an add on.

There's also no requirement to solo the twin for a multi comm initial
exactly....
to the original poster, yes you can endorse him, however insurance would require you to be there during his "solo"... where he would be performing the duties of PIC, I would be suprised if you actually found a situation where a student did solo a multi-engine airplane without having the rating. For an add-on you wouldn't need to mess with his medical because he's not a student pilot anymore (i.e. student pilot certificate was "replaced by PPL").
If he did not hold a PPL, you could theoretically sign him off on his medical/SP cert. and logbook to go solo... but that's kind of stupid because it's never going to happen.
ryan1234 is offline  
Old 02-15-2009, 06:08 AM
  #10  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 62
Default

I have to agree with 250. If the guy already has his ASEL he does not have to do any solo flights for the AMEL add on. The only time they would have to do the solo flights is if they were doing the AMEL first.
Furloughee is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices