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Old 02-17-2009, 09:41 AM   #21  
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PFJ is like russian roulette...you never know who's gonna be on the other side of that interview desk, not good for said applicant if it were me. I wouldn't spend the money even in good hiring times. To each his own though.


Ahhhh Slice!!! Glad you joined the fray.


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Old 02-17-2009, 09:43 AM   #22  
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One of my crashpad roomates worked for Gulfstream. Doesn't speak to highly of it. He left after he experienced a number of engine failures. They aren't willing to pay for experienced pilots, what makes you think they would be willing to pay for adequate mx?

This is a great time to start training. Local flight schools are hurting and places like ATP are lowering prices and adding programs that on the surface look good but don't offer anything you couldn't gain on your own and still don't offer the experience of seeing different situations.

Ok, go to ATP. You have your multi commercial and perhaps your CFI. Guess what? Nobody's hiring and you now have a bank note due. Go to a local flight school near you. Keep working and pay for as much of the flight time out of pocket as possible. Get your ratings in a slightly longer time, get offered a job as a CFI there because the owner knows you and start building time and more valuable experience as a CFI, with lower debt. Makes that first year salary more livable and you have a leg up on the people that bought the ATP hype.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:45 AM   #23  
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Ahhhh Slice!!! Glad you joined the fray.


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You know me, always hawking the fight waiting for a window of opportunity.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:00 AM   #24  
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I agree now is the time you want to get training and experience so you can ride the wave when it comes again, and it will. I think HSLD is saying things will be very slow. With that, there's no reason for a wannabe to pay a premium for the 0 to hero programs out there right now. Find a solid school and instructor and train paying as little money as possible. You can still have those ratings 6 months for now for 30-50 percent less.
Ahhh the money debate again. I will not get into it, but again, I respectfully disagree. Working at an FBO, and haveing gone to ATP, I see both sides of the coin. The price usually comes out being preaty close, especially when you try to get it done as fast as ATP.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:07 AM   #25  
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....Ok, go to ATP. You have your multi commercial and perhaps your CFI. Guess what? Nobody's hiring and you now have a bank note due. Go to a local flight school near you. Keep working and pay for as much of the flight time out of pocket as possible. Get your ratings in a slightly longer time, get offered a job as a CFI there because the owner knows you and start building time and more valuable experience as a CFI, with lower debt. Makes that first year salary more livable and you have a leg up on the people that bought the ATP hype.

Ok, I'll bite. In the spirit of a balanced discussion, here's my personal situation.

My flight training is completely paid for. It doesn't matter how...it's paid for. I'm coming out this with ZERO debt. This is no bs. Now, given the inustry's current situation, why not position myself (w/PFT) to take advantage of the hiring spree when it picks up again? Is there some sort of unwritten pecking order for one to follow in this profession? I don't see it that way.

Now, my intention is to continue on through my training and obtain my CFI/MEI, then instruct; but why should I player hate on the person that chooses the PFT route? You know, I've thought about going over to PBI on the southside of the airport and hitting all the FBO's there like Signature, Galaxy and asking their pilots what do they and their colleagues think of PFT just so that I can get a different perspective on this issue.



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Old 02-17-2009, 10:40 AM   #26  
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Paying for a job is bad way to enter the profession. It's pretty simple to make that stand on principle. Much has been discussed at Jetcareers. Go over there and do a search for Gulfstream or PFJ, or even here for that matter. 3 out of 4 posts will be useless flamebait but if you weed that out, you'll get the general idea from the rest.

I've said it so many times I'm just not interested in typing it all out again....
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #27  
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You know it must be bad if Don and I agree on something. That should say it all right there...
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:45 AM   #28  
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Ahhh the money debate again. I will not get into it, but again, I respectfully disagree. Working at an FBO, and haveing gone to ATP, I see both sides of the coin. The price usually comes out being preaty close, especially when you try to get it done as fast as ATP.
Depends on the FBO. I just don't see the point of rushing to finish ratings right now. There aren't many jobs to be had. So now you're a low time pilot, in debt, and are going to have to pay to remain current while trying to find a job.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:06 AM   #29  
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I keep hearing that the hiring will pick up soon, and fast this time. A lot of guys are going to retire within a cpl years as well. My CFI at my FBO tells me this:

"I shouldn't be saying this, but going to a program like ATP is the way to go. You just get it all done without worrying about weather / availability, etc. When the hiring train comes, and it will soon, you will want to be ready for it. The best time to get training when no one is hiring. I got mine when everyone was hiring, then I finished when the hiring stopped, and here I am. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, but it will be good to have a seniority number, and a yearly raise."

He also works as a delivery truck driver part time...
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:06 AM   #30  
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Depends on the FBO. I just don't see the point of rushing to finish ratings right now. There aren't many jobs to be had. So now you're a low time pilot, in debt, and are going to have to pay to remain current while trying to find a job.
It all depends on your personal situation. You could still work at your "regular job" and pay down the loan while instructing on the side. IMHO, it's a good deal for right now. It will help you build time while the industry turns around. And you have to be willing to move to get a decent paying job right now. I was lucky enough to find one close to home, and it didn't rewquire a move. And my wife makes decent money, so the kids mouth is still fed, the roof is still there, and now that I love what I do, she can tollerate me.

In the end, it doesn't matter how you get there. They don't ask in the interview "where did you get your certs.?" They just care that you have them and you meet the requirements mostly. It's just two diferent points of view. Yours has many valid points, and most of them are very, very good. It's a matter of perspective, and what your goals are, and what you are willing to endure in the end to achieve your dream. I am willing to put up with a few years of loan payments to not have to be a greasemonkey any more.
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