Interesting email from ATP
02-17-2009, 11:10 AM
#31
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by Dan64456
I keep hearing that the hiring will pick up soon, and fast this time. A lot of guys are going to retire within a cpl years as well. My CFI at my FBO tells me this:
"I shouldn't be saying this, but going to a program like ATP is the way to go. You just get it all done without worrying about weather / availability, etc. When the hiring train comes, and it will soon, you will want to be ready for it. The best time to get training when no one is hiring. I got mine when everyone was hiring, then I finished when the hiring stopped, and here I am. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, but it will be good to have a seniority number, and a yearly raise."
He also works as a delivery truck driver part time...
"I shouldn't be saying this, but going to a program like ATP is the way to go. You just get it all done without worrying about weather / availability, etc. When the hiring train comes, and it will soon, you will want to be ready for it. The best time to get training when no one is hiring. I got mine when everyone was hiring, then I finished when the hiring stopped, and here I am. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, but it will be good to have a seniority number, and a yearly raise."
He also works as a delivery truck driver part time...
02-17-2009, 11:46 AM
#32
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by mshunter
It all depends on your personal situation. You could still work at your "regular job" and pay down the loan while instructing on the side. IMHO, it's a good deal for right now. It will help you build time while the industry turns around. And you have to be willing to move to get a decent paying job right now. I was lucky enough to find one close to home, and it didn't rewquire a move. And my wife makes decent money, so the kids mouth is still fed, the roof is still there, and now that I love what I do, she can tollerate me
.
In the end, it doesn't matter how you get there. They don't ask in the interview "where did you get your certs.?" They just care that you have them and you meet the requirements mostly. It's just two diferent points of view. Yours has many valid points, and most of them are very, very good. It's a matter of perspective, and what your goals are, and what you are willing to endure in the end to achieve your dream. I am willing to put up with a few years of loan payments to not have to be a greasemonkey any more.
. In the end, it doesn't matter how you get there. They don't ask in the interview "where did you get your certs.?" They just care that you have them and you meet the requirements mostly. It's just two diferent points of view. Yours has many valid points, and most of them are very, very good. It's a matter of perspective, and what your goals are, and what you are willing to endure in the end to achieve your dream. I am willing to put up with a few years of loan payments to not have to be a greasemonkey any more.
02-17-2009, 12:21 PM
#33
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by Slice
What's his definition of soon? Unless he knows something the rest of us don't...soon is most likely a year or more out. I'd lean towards the or more side on that too.
02-17-2009, 12:48 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by Dan64456
And that is exactly how I feel about being an IT lacky. Life is no fun when you are miserable 5 out of 7 days per week every week...
02-17-2009, 02:48 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: EMB120 CA
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by Dan64456
I keep hearing that the hiring will pick up soon, and fast this time. A lot of guys are going to retire within a cpl years as well. My CFI at my FBO tells me this:
"I shouldn't be saying this, but going to a program like ATP is the way to go. You just get it all done without worrying about weather / availability, etc. When the hiring train comes, and it will soon, you will want to be ready for it. The best time to get training when no one is hiring. I got mine when everyone was hiring, then I finished when the hiring stopped, and here I am. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, but it will be good to have a seniority number, and a yearly raise."
He also works as a delivery truck driver part time...
"I shouldn't be saying this, but going to a program like ATP is the way to go. You just get it all done without worrying about weather / availability, etc. When the hiring train comes, and it will soon, you will want to be ready for it. The best time to get training when no one is hiring. I got mine when everyone was hiring, then I finished when the hiring stopped, and here I am. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, but it will be good to have a seniority number, and a yearly raise."
He also works as a delivery truck driver part time...
02-17-2009, 05:38 PM
#36
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by atpwannabe
Ok, I'll bite. In the spirit of a balanced discussion, here's my personal situation.
My flight training is completely paid for. It doesn't matter how...it's paid for. I'm coming out this with ZERO debt. This is no bs. Now, given the inustry's current situation, why not position myself (w/PFT) to take advantage of the hiring spree when it picks up again? Is there some sort of unwritten pecking order for one to follow in this profession? I don't see it that way.
Now, my intention is to continue on through my training and obtain my CFI/MEI, then instruct; but why should I player hate on the person that chooses the PFT route? You know, I've thought about going over to PBI on the southside of the airport and hitting all the FBO's there like Signature, Galaxy and asking their pilots what do they and their colleagues think of PFT just so that I can get a different perspective on this issue.
atp
My flight training is completely paid for. It doesn't matter how...it's paid for. I'm coming out this with ZERO debt. This is no bs. Now, given the inustry's current situation, why not position myself (w/PFT) to take advantage of the hiring spree when it picks up again? Is there some sort of unwritten pecking order for one to follow in this profession? I don't see it that way.
Now, my intention is to continue on through my training and obtain my CFI/MEI, then instruct; but why should I player hate on the person that chooses the PFT route? You know, I've thought about going over to PBI on the southside of the airport and hitting all the FBO's there like Signature, Galaxy and asking their pilots what do they and their colleagues think of PFT just so that I can get a different perspective on this issue.
atp
Had I not fallen on past experience from 8 years of flying and working on the ramp two winters ago and blindly went along with a captain who didn't want to spray the plane with Type IV with snow I might be dead along with 51 others sitting behind me. I'd probably be a little less cautious about ice despite being in a jet that's more than capable if it wasn't for flying through unforcasted icing conditions in a bonanza. I might not respect the storm that's being painted on my radar had I not been put in an imbedded line with a student.
Sooner or later that lack of experience catches up with you and no amount of money will change that. How do you justify to your peers who are slugging it out instructing, flying jumpers, freight, whatever that you threw a bunch of money at the problem?
There are some of us here that are pretty outspoken on the issue. You can almost guarantee that Slice and I will chime in when this comes up. I can assure you that many others share this belief.
Remember, the PTS is only the minimum you need to do to obtain a rating. Pilot factories are only there to get you through the minimum required so they can spit you out and move on to the next victim.
02-17-2009, 05:40 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by de727ups
I've never been a fan of ATP's 90 day program. I think it pushes the limit since you have no time for seasoning between ratings. No time to learn "outside the box". So, in my opinion, "nobody can do it as fast as ATP", is more of a negative than a positive.
To answer the OP's question about the intern turbine time thing. I believe ATP has planned for a long time to operate a new model of the VLJ's (forget which one) in a charter or Frac type operation. They will need a fully qualified pilot for the left seat but will put an "intern" in the right seat to build turbine time. Depending on how this is structured, it could be seen as Gulfstream style PFJ, at worst, or simply loggable ride along time a la Eagle Jet International.
In the end, it's hardly proven how the industry will respond to such a unique program, even if there was any hiring going on for the industry to respond too...
In this hiring enviornment, I'd hardly suggest ATP "because" of the internship program. If you like ATP for other reasons, then knock yerself out, but I see the "internship" program as a highly unproven carrot that ATP is using to sell their program much like the RJ course used to be.
To answer the OP's question about the intern turbine time thing. I believe ATP has planned for a long time to operate a new model of the VLJ's (forget which one) in a charter or Frac type operation. They will need a fully qualified pilot for the left seat but will put an "intern" in the right seat to build turbine time. Depending on how this is structured, it could be seen as Gulfstream style PFJ, at worst, or simply loggable ride along time a la Eagle Jet International.
In the end, it's hardly proven how the industry will respond to such a unique program, even if there was any hiring going on for the industry to respond too...
In this hiring enviornment, I'd hardly suggest ATP "because" of the internship program. If you like ATP for other reasons, then knock yerself out, but I see the "internship" program as a highly unproven carrot that ATP is using to sell their program much like the RJ course used to be.
Back to the original question if you need anymore advice on ATP do not hesitate to private message me. Best of luck to you in search!
02-17-2009, 06:04 PM
#39
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by Pilotpip
Because you can't buy experience. And that's the one thing that everybody looking at these options can't understand until they are here. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I really know.....
.....Sooner or later that lack of experience catches up with you and no amount of money will change that. How do you justify to your peers who are slugging it out instructing, flying jumpers, freight, whatever that you threw a bunch of money at the problem?
.....Sooner or later that lack of experience catches up with you and no amount of money will change that. How do you justify to your peers who are slugging it out instructing, flying jumpers, freight, whatever that you threw a bunch of money at the problem?
02-17-2009, 06:11 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Your profile (wants to fly a jet) says it all. If your idea of time building is just towing banners or doing turns about a point you're doing something wrong.
Like I said, until you're here you really don't understand what we're saying. I didn't understand it when I was pumping fuel at my FBO and asking the pilots coming through questions. They made it sound easy. I thought the same things. It's an airplane, right? The fastest isn't always the easiest or the best. Quality time equals experience. Sim time isn't quality. Doing a bunch of ground ref with a student isn't much better. The trick is making the best of what you have and no amount of money can buy quality.
Please tell me one other industry where paying extra money to get something that is easily obtained for compensation once hired is looked at in a positive light?
Like I said, until you're here you really don't understand what we're saying. I didn't understand it when I was pumping fuel at my FBO and asking the pilots coming through questions. They made it sound easy. I thought the same things. It's an airplane, right? The fastest isn't always the easiest or the best. Quality time equals experience. Sim time isn't quality. Doing a bunch of ground ref with a student isn't much better. The trick is making the best of what you have and no amount of money can buy quality.
Please tell me one other industry where paying extra money to get something that is easily obtained for compensation once hired is looked at in a positive light?
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