Slice

Like I've said before, you may have to justify it to the guy interviewing you behind the desk. If you want to go buy some Citation time knock yourself out. But when someone does a Gulfstream type program in a required FO seat and pays for it, that's a whole different animal. Newbies and wannabes just need to be aware that there could be negative consequences as a result of trying short cuts. Then again, there may not be. It's all about if it's worth the risk and/or if you can look at yourself in the mirror.

Dan64456

That's because they are only 59 - 63ish now... =D

ufgatorpilot

No comment.

Who cares as long as you are competent? Why are we so worried about how we are viewed?

ufgatorpilot

I think you missed my point. I just said, you should get the experience that you need. However you go about doing it is your business. I don't have money to buy Citation time or a Gulfstream type program, so don't think I'm advocating for these. But I'm not going to look down on a safe, competent pilot because they took the Gulfstream route.

Diver Driver

The problem with PFJ is that you are paying to do a JOB that would otherwise normally be a paid position. Myself and a lot of other guys are out on the street at many airlines right now and this issue kind of makes me sick.

I see a lot of similarities between PFJ folks and the guys that jumped ship from TSA to GoJets when they were first created, they were willing to do anything and everything to get ahead without thinking about the bigger picture or 'stabbing someone in the back'. It really makes me question the professionalism and integrity of the people that choose this route... and if I am ever a part of a hiring board in the future, I dont think I would be comfortable hiring an individual that participated in a PFJ program because of the perceived lack of professionalism and integrity that these programs create for themselves.... it's an ethics issue for me.

Imagine in 10 years when you are a crusty regional captain or a mainline FO and you get furloughed or your company goes out of business but other carriers are 'hiring' PFJ guys to sit in the right seat... you would be outraged.

So ya, Gulfstream and a few others have this 'program', but where does it stop? Thank God we have ALPA and other unions at most carriers to prevent this kind of stuff from going on... for now.

Pilotpip

That's just it. A fresh rating/type whatever doesn't make you competent. All it means is that you meet the minimum requirements to be sitting in that seat.

Would you feel safe knowing that the FO has 195 hours, zero actual and about 20 hours multi, and a captain with 1500 total, 100 hours in type and just off IOE?

Perfectly legal under the regulations, however most airlines won't allow this scenario and with good reason.

F172Driver

Well speaking from my own experience, I payed just over 15K for all my ratings. I studied alot on my own and had alotta help along the way, but 15K is way less then 50K ATP and DCA are quoting. Also with the quality of time thing. If you have a few hours of turbine experience I think its great, but I also think the kind of flying matters alot as well. Let me preface this by saying that im just a lowly CFI, I haven't made it to the jets....yet. But if I was going for an interview wouldn't it look better if I had a bunch of hard IFR time that was at a job possibly in a piston as opposed to paying for some turbine time? Also gatorpilot, im in gainesville going to uf, do you fly out of uac?

de727ups

"but it kinda irks me that you think that myself and others that went to ATP"

Sorry your irked...

I have no problem with ATP, per se, but I have a problem with going from PPL to CFI/MEI in 90 days and hopping right into teaching the next newb. I think one who does it that way has little chance to learn real world lessons and outside the box flying.

"I just wish that you would not look down on others or disuade others with erroneous information."

Other than being mistaken about how ATP is using the Djet's, I don't believe any of my information is erroneous. It's my opinion based on being a CFI since 1981, my experiences in flying and flight training over the years, and my personal experience with ATP training in the mid-80's.

Again, I'd like to mention that ATP marketing a turbine time building program as a direct entry into a regional airline market in this day and age is pretty sad. I'd not recommend going to ATP for this reason alone. At least get the CFI ratings and work for a time as a CFI. I'd highly recommend someone considering ATP take a tour of the location they will be attending and speak with CFI's and students at that location. Don't just believe everything you see at the website or hear from the call center.

ufgatorpilot

There is no point in even engaging in a conversation with you since you continue to put words in my mouth. I never said any of these things. I never said a fresh rating/type makes you competent or that it's a good idea to have an FO with 195 hours etc etc.

ufgatorpilot

No, I graduated a couple of years ago and moved out of Gainesville. I am out in the real world now. Enjoy your time there and don't party too hard.