Cubdriver

RVSM are you asking for some ballpark figures to use for your chair flying, or are you asking is it a good idea to be chair flying? Memorizing a ton of inaccurate data to prepare for an actual flight can actually get in the way of learning on the flight because airplanes cannot be flown by the numbers to any degree of accuracy. In fact the maneuvers are designed to make it impossible or next to it. On the other hand, I wish more people would chair fly or fly a desktop sim at home in a constructive, serious way because it helps them to think about and understand the basic concepts.

On the other hand there are power ranges that may be used for many of the standard maneuvers. For example dirty slow flight in a 172 with full fuel will take 1950-2250 RPM, but it varies within that range due to the pitch variation of the pilot, how physically dirty the airplane is, how high the compression figures in the engine are, the prevailing gust factor and density altitude for the day, etc. In addition the RPM responds somewhat interactively to pitch and it isn't perfectly steady. So there is no way to fly by the numbers other than knowing what a typical range is. As someone said, ultimately you need to use both a knowledge of ranges and have a feeling for the airplane. Aviation is both and art and a science. If you want a ranges to use for a particular manuever, name them and the configuration you want to use and one of us will provide some details on how to chair or sim fly it.

Integrated instruction means not fixating on the inside or outside of the airplane. Use the instruments as well the things seen outside in your scan. Ground reference and visual maneuvers are impossible to do well with only instruments, at least for the novice, because the airplane will stray off the numbers before you can correct using instruments alone. The integrated technique is to use outside cues for primary reference and use the applicable instrument for quality of the maneuver. The instruments are also useful to start the maneuver in setting up the initial attitude and power setting.

Integrated instruction was a direct result of high mid-air accident rates among general aviation fleets. NTSB/ FAA saw that pilots were too heads-down, and they knew that to remedy this would require a change in the fundamental teaching in regard to instruments to make sure a good outside scan was part of the training. One of the problems with chair and desktop simulator flying is how limited the outside visuals are. You don't want to get in the habit of inside fixation. If you use a desktop sim get good at flipping the outside views and making the most of them.

RVSM Certified

ROTLMBO! How ironic.

I have done exactly that in years past. I'm 41 now, but back then I must have been what....14/15 years old. I got side tracked away from aviation many years ago and was never able to get my license back in those days, but I flew my chair with a plunger between my legs simulating a stick instead of a yoke [as the 152 has].

This was many, many years ago and the poster I bought was that of a C-152. It is that same 152 poster that we've all seen in FBO's and Flight Clubs a million times before many, many years ago.

Many years.....ehem.....well, I'm 41, not a total dinosaur....................... yet.


Penglis, seems to think that wrote is also a low level training tactic that is not all inclusive, but he does think that "rote" has some probative value in that it allows the student to focus on the "why" and not always on the "how" and he believes that if you know the "why" then the "how" comes easier. In life, I've mostly found that to be fairly true than not true, IMO.

Thanks for the memories of that 152 poster.

RVSM Certified

Actually, I'm just reflecting what I read a few other CFI authors write about in their books; that having some Pitch/Power/Trim parameters gives the student pilot the ability to know what control inputs will help them handle their aircraft. The whole thing about chair flying was brought up by someone else in this thread.

Now, my reason for asking the question gets to my desire to optimize every aspect of my flight training, such that I become the most efficient and most proficient high-performance twin engine light business jet pilot that I can possibly be [not competing with anyone else or their ability]. In my case, I know that a light business twin jet is on the horizon for me, so that is the level of piloting skills that I need to develop. Therefore, my approach to training must be comensurate with the type of aircraft I'll actually be flying.

My initial thoughts were plain vanilla:

The sooner I learn how to physically handle the aircraft during the six fundamental phases of flight [take-off, climb, cruise, descent, approach, landing], the sooner I can free up additional mental bandwith to be able to handle whatever my instructor wants to throw at me including his/her instruction on how to handle things like congested air traffic, congested radios, emergency controller requests, unusual controller requests, unusual/aggressively developing weather, in-flight emergencies, emergency maneuvers, abc, 123, etc.

So, the issues for me are timing of fundamental skills development [getting up to speed quickly on the handling of the aircraft during the six major phases of flight] and the strong desire to avoid the pitfalls found in Primacy [learning bad habits because I am not yet able to physically handle the aircraft smoothly while being taught other things at the same time].


Which is why I would not want to memorize inaccurate data. My question is whether or not the initial learning phase can be augmented/boosted or enhanced, when the student comes to work everyday prepared with at least the ability to configure the training aircraft during a take-off, climb, cruise, descent, approach or landing - getting the "basic physics" of flying taken care of as quickly as possible, so that the other non-physics based elements of learning to be a proficient/efficient pilot can have more mental bandwidth.


Do you mean "maneuvers" like the take/off, climb, cruise, descent, approach and landing? I want to master those as quickly as possible, so that I can have more brain left over during dual training for those other maneuvers that I think you are referring to here.

I don't want to get ahead of my Instructor. To the contrary. I actually want to "help" my Instructor by getting the fundamental flight segments under my belt without a ton of mundane review all the time.

Just like that movie [can't remember the name] where Cruise looks at Gooding Jr. and says: "Help me help you!" I just want to help my Instructor, by helping myself as much as I possibly can by being smart about my training and nailing the basics as early as possible, so the advanced portions of the training will go smoother.

At the end of the day, I want my CFI to say that he/she will never have another student as teachable. He came to work every day on-time, prepared, positive attitude, eyes and ears wide open, did everything I asked him to do without whining or moaning or complaining and caused me to evaluate his performance as outstanding. That's what I want all of my Instructors to remember about training me.


Thank, you.

Standard Day - Full Fuel - One Passenger - No Wind - Well within CG Limits:

Take-Off (50 ft obstacle clearance)
Climb (best angle - best rate)
Cruise (best speed - best endurance)
Descent (100, 250 and 500 fpm)
Approach (cross wind to final)
Landing (full stop - last exit)


Got it. I had not put the two things together before in that exact same way. But, since you did, it does seem to make some sense. I guess one has to very conscious of the fact that they are in the "chair" to work on procedures and not visual flying.

Much appreciated, thanks!

Cubdriver

Let me jump right to the useful part of your last query so you can get started working on chair flying.

First, all the basic facts to know about the standard phases of flight are all addressed in the Pilots Operating Handbook (POH) or Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM, same thing usually) for your airplane. A Skyhawk generic POH is sold online from any of a number of retailers for $45. Read it cover it cover several times an do not fret about what you can't quite understand yet.

My comments are to be taken as general and are aimed at getting you started. Nothing I say supercedes the actual instruction you get from an instructor hired for that purpose.

In the Takeoff phase, the POH will detail several version of takeoffs designed to acheive varying objectives. You name clearing a 50-ft obstacle as your takeoff objective, and that would come under the heading of Short Field Takeoff because where there is insufficient field length for a normal takeoff you must employ the technique to get you over an obstacle. In the POH there is a short description of how to do it. Power setting is full power in a Skyhawk.

The Short Field Takeoff technique leaves you in an attitude termed "Vx" for Best Angle of Climb. The rest of the Climb is usually done at the Best Rate of Climb, or Cruise Climb, to get the airplane to the cruising altitude as quickly as possible. This is called Vy, Best Rate of Climb. So, you will use that after passing the 50-foot obstacle by pitching the nose down a few degrees, perhaps 9 degrees down to about 6. It depends mainly on the condition of the engine how quickly it will speed up to Vy. The POH has a short section on the Cruise Climb phase of flight. A typical power settings for Cruise Climb is 2350 RPM. Allow your airplane to speed up at the top of the climb before trimming for cruise. Order of change is attitude (pitch), power, trim.

In Cruise you can have best speed or best endurance, but not both. If you want the speed then look at the Performance section (Chapter 5) and see what the engine RPM is for that at the altitude you plan to fly. In addition, while you are there take a look at what altitude gives the best true airspeed for your airplane because each airplane is optimized for a particular cruising altitude. Make sure to check for any words on that in Chapter 4 (Normal Procedures) on that as well.

In your Descent, the three descent rates you specify will follow from progressively lower throttle settings applied to an aircraft trimmed for Cruise flight. The exactly throttle for your airplane will vary, but a Skyhawk will lose about 100 fpm with a 2000 RPM setting assuming it is trimmed for cruise, 1800 RPM for -250 fpm, and 1400 RPM for a -500 fpm descent rate. The "100 rpm or 1" MP = 5 KIAS or 100 fpm " rule is useful here. Do not retrim for normal descent.

The POH will detail how to best execute an Approach under visual conditions. Power and pitch will vary according to the rule of power for glidepath and pitch for airspeed. With a crosswind, crab to the flare while maintaining centerline alignment, and then transition to a sideslip for the touch down. If your airplane bounces due to too much speed, use a touch of power to soften the landing, or add full power and go around. If you land, then apply hard brakes without skidding and pull back on the yoke to get the weight off the nose, while increasing aileron deflection into the wind. Retract flaps as soon as practical, no hurry.

Don't ride the brakes while taxiing and keep some aileron turned toward the prevailing wind. The rule of thumb to observe for flight control positioning while taxiing is dive away from tailwinds, climb into headwinds.

Any questions? Now you're an expert!

USMCFLYR

RVSM -

I was watching a AOPA produced CD on Essential Aerodynamics/Spins and in one of the lessons it shows a PDF of practice maneuvers.

This should give you PLENTY of opportunity to chair fly basic handling procedures and it even gives some reference numbers like 1900 rpm for slow flight (though it also cautions that things change )

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/aerodynami..._maneuvers.pdf

Let me know what you think of the PDF and if it was helpful.

USMCFLYR

FlyArmy

Me says you should play Microsoft Flight Simulator or X Plane for a while if you don't already. It seems like you have all the books and videos, now get the game, a stick, and pedals and get an idea of what it feels/looks like and how different control inputs affect other aspects of flight. Some people on here may disagree and say its just a game, and yes it does lack the whole "feel" aspect, but it can be a very useful tool in my opinion.

USMCFLYR

I've never played those games but it seems to be the current top level type of "chair flying". We have something sot of, kinda of like it in the military. I wouldn't ever use the word "feel" though when talking about a benefit of any simulation. I'm sure you would go ape if someone told you that a helo computer game could give you the "feel" of hovering - right?

USMCFLYR

Cubdriver

I am 100% in favor of getting X-Plane and learning how to use it thoroughly. NASA uses it for preliminary design and there is an FAA-approved version that qualifies for certain types of PCATD training. I recommend CH Products pedals, a joystick (many brands are good), and a throttle quadrant (CH Products makes a good one).

Chair flying has never been so good.

FlyArmy

Hovering feels like sitting in my computer chair...zero movement in any direction . That is, until i start moving...then my computer chair loses that sense of being in the air lol.

Oh, and really, the "feel" I was referring to was not the aircraft feeling but the feeling of putting inputs into the contorls...ie coordinating throttle, yoke/stick, and pedal inputs and their effect on the aircraft.

USMCFLYR

Of course you are much better at it than I was in my 1.5 hr attempt in a CH-53A I felt lilke I was in a rickety chair sliding down a rain slick deck on a cruise ship in the middle of a hurricane!

USMCFLYR