Sooo many options!! Help needed!
 

Hey guys, first off I want to say that this is an amazing site!!

I just turned 17 and am a junior in high school. My uncle was a pilot for Cathay and Qantas and I've always been interested in aviation. Last year I got my first job, as a contact (Canwest Flt Services Ltd.) ramp agent, working for QX and WS, as well as HMY Airways, SSV and Air Transat at Victoria International (YYJ, Class C, about 20nm NNE of Port Angeles, WA) We do pretty much everything, for everyone (except AC) including catering, deicing, baggage handling, marshalling, grooming etc.

I've got a question, I really want to fly commercially and I've started taking lessons for my PPL at Victoria Flying Club, but I know, from talking to pilots, reading these forums and working part time in the industry, that the airlines are hurting and it isnt a very stable job. I want to get a business degree or something like that to fall back on.

My question:

From what I understand, there is two ways to go, a) work with a CFI for my PPL then CPL, multi, ifr, night and ATP, or b) head south and go to a much more expensive "big school" such as ERAU, Delta Connection Academy or PRO IFR which will expedite my training but sacrifice the quality and 1-on-1 training I'd get with a CFI. Which should I choose, I've got dual citizenship and my grandparents live in PHX, so I could live there and fly VFR 360 days a year or stay here and work with my CFI??

In a perfect world, I'd like to fly for 10-15yrs then work within the airline in a management position and work my way up the ranks that way into a board position of some sort.

Thanks

I just finished up my Junior year at the University of North Dakota and have been pleased with the program. The real beauty of UND is that on one side of campus is your typical public university offering degrees in everything from biology to theatre arts, on the other side is the school of aerospace sciences which includes an aviation program that is second to none.

If you were to major in aviation management, you would be able to get pretty much any degree from the school of business (economics, finance, accounting, management, etc.) with just one additional year of school. If you stay during the summers you would be able to walk out of here with 2 degrees in four years. You typically meet with your flight instructor atleast 3 times a week. As far as I can tell, you get the best of both worlds.

Tuition is reasonable and cost of living is low. You also get to experiance all types of weather-thunderstorms in the summer, ice in winter, and everything in between. Hope this helps, the link at the bottom may be of some help to you, let me know if you have any questions about the program.

http://flightops.aero.und.edu/facts/

A degree in non-aviation is a good plan.

You should probably decide up front whether you would rather work in Canada or the US, and get your ratings in the country you wish to work in. Conversion between the two is not real hard (not like JAA), but there is some expense and effort.

I would suggest a small school, or a good CFI at an FBO if you can find one who can work to your schedule needs. Most of the big schools will take advatnage of you.

You've hit on a touchy subject regarding your career path. Planning to fly for a few years and then go do something else makes it sound like a hobby or a lark, for which are willing to get paid little or nothing. Unfortunately, those of us who plan to stay and raise our families and send our kids to college on airline pay deeply resent folks who want to "just do it for a while". Some of the most profitable business sectors today are those that involve disposable employees, prefareably young and stupid...this sort of employee will work for peanuts and no benefits and not care because they are not planning on staying. Most retail and fast food fall into this category. Airlines would be ecstatic if all their pilots quit at age 35 or so...they would be replacing pilots with low-paid new hires. This works great unless you happen to be one of the employees left behind in that industry...look at any 55 year old walmart employee.

If you want to get into top management you need to go to a big-name college then a big-name business school. In today's world you will not stay at one company, but change jobs every 5 years or so. Board of director members normally come from outside the company...they are CEOs of other companies or other high-profile people (retired admirals, ex-senators, etc). This is a totally different career than flying. You could however become a management pilot at some point...you would perform management duties in the flight operations part of the company, but still fly occasionally. These guys can make good money sometimes.

Just to remind you that flying in the desert when it gets hot wich is like 10 out of 12 months, can be one of the bumpiest experiences that you can encounter. Frankly I don't know how people go train at places like las begas phoenix or tucson. Some of the worst turbluences I've encoutered has been over the desert. I would suggest going to phx and experience the 110 degree heat first before you make the commitment to fly there. To answer your question I would train in the U.S since there are more flying jobs over here.

Big schools are a waste of money. You'd be better off to find a good CFI at a nearby FBO and study and fly as much as possible. It all depends on how much effort you put in it, but you can get all your ratings within a year or so. A lot of those grads from big schools might think they rock because they have a degree that they spent $90,000 on, but I have met plenty of them that dont have crap for real experience. I have met plenty of big school grads that have their CFI and have 0 actual instrument time. How horrible is that?

Training to get you ratings is not about getting actual instrument, it is about getting your ratings. Everyone who continues there aviation career will rack up their actual instrument time, it is unfortunate that a CFI has zero actual instrument time, but its simply unfortunate, nothing more then that.:)

Actual Time
 

Some actual experience is a good thing to have. There are plenty of guys claiming to be instrument pilots who would be minutes from death if they accidentally flew into a cloud.


SkyHigh

I have flown with Instrument students and even people that have their Inst. rating ("ready to run before they can walk" type) like that...where I had to take the controls when we popped into a cloud. A couple of hours in the soup may, strangely, save your life.

Lax

You're working at Horizon right? If so, Horizon just came over to our school (CWU) and did some "direct hiring," 4 guys may have been hired. Kind of off the subject, but have you heard anything about that, not that you would, just curious. :cool:

Cwu
 

I am also a CWU grad and flew for Horizon a few years ago. I live in the same town as you however I am out of touch with the daily operations of Horizon. It wouldn't surprise me though. If you are looking for a quality new or newer rental home PM me.

SkyHigh

Avoid ERAU like the plague. They're very expensive. Unless you got plenty of money to burn, go for it. But consider the money you spend with them, you can get yourself into an MBA program, all the while, work on your flight training with a local flight school and get your ratings and time. Become a CFI and do that on the side. As far as quality of training is concerned, do you research on the CFIs you train with. Ask them to have their past students contact you and talk to them honestly about their exeprieces with the CFI. I did that and landed myself an excellent CFI for my private certification. I went down to CAPT (ex-ERAU program) and the instructors there were no better/worse but the training was A LOT more expensive! Since you mentioned an interest in aviation management, that MBA is going to go a long way for you vs. anything ERAU can vomit on you. But whatever you do, avoid CAPT (or whatever name they will operate under in the near future) like the plague. Once they got your money, it's all about kissing their asses to get them to push your resume in the right direction. And if you don't, they still got your money and you're screwed. Do your research on these message boards. Good luck!

Thanks for the responses!

JMT21: I play rep hockey and I've already talked to UND about their flight dept and athletics. I like what I've heard so far and will probably take a tour of the campus this summer. Thanks for the info on their aviation dept.

rickair7777: don't get me wrong, I'd love to stick with flying for my career. I dont think I'd ever get bored of it and the travelling/exploring different countries out of N.A. would be the biggest attraction for me. A managment pilot sounds interesting, could you elaborate on the position?

BURflyer: Believe me! I've flown out of FFZ around the P50 in the summertime. Coming from Canada, during university, I'd probably come home during those summer months (may-august)...its just too hot!!

BROKE CFI: Wow! thats incredible, thanks for the insight.

Flying Ninja: Thanks Flying Ninja, and no, sadly I dont have that $90,000 to blow on ERAU. I like your plan...a non-aviation degree (MBA maybe) and work on my flight training with a CFI on the side. I'll watch out for CAPT ;)


Another question....what about a EJA/NJ charter type "airline". I always see EJA's Cit.Xs, Hawker 800s or Learjets fly into YYJ carrying celeb's and exec's, mostly in the film industry.

Can someone explain the major differences between a charter like ExecJet/Netjets, a LCC (like Westjet or Southwest) and a national/legacy/intl carrier (like ACA, UAL, AAL and COA)

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question.

Thanks again

I heard that they were going to start doing that again at CWU. We have a June 13 class and supposedly will have new hire classes throughout the year.:)

Well what you have is 2 kinds of lying. The LCC/Major which are the same thing except for LCC has more domestic flights and probably pay is lower because you only fly 1 or 2 types of aircraft. Major, you just have more types of flying, int. dom. and you have more aircraft to fly.

The other kind is Fractional execjet/netjets/flexjet those aren't charter airlines. Basically it's kind of like corporate flying except you will know your schedule ahead of time, not the destinations, just days your going to be flying. The big difference is that you are expected to be more involved in planning and executing a flight, you have to file flight plans and double check everything, not as lazy ops as the airlines where everybody else does the work for you and you just fly. You are required to fly to pretty much any airport that the customer demands. Also you have to interact witht the customers. Right now fractionals are booming, this is the way many pilots are going because there is a lot of job security at the fractionals and pay is way better than regional or some major carriers.

Thanks for the info BURflyer, for a fractional airline, are you required to live in in hub city?

Yes, you have to live near your assigned base but it doesn't mean that your trips will start or end at your base, that's the crazy thing. If you're based at LAX for example your trips don't neccessarly start at LAX, it could start or end any where in the area or in the country and you have to airline to get to that city or airline to get back home.

Wow! Thats crazy! So lets I'm based at SMO/LA area, but my day starts at SDL and ends at TEB. Would I have to fly on my own nickel to get to Scottsdale and come home from NY?

Also, could someone please explain the managment pilot position, what the job entails and what are the wages like?

Thank you

flystraightin ;

Wow man, we have a lot to talk about! I also live in Victoria, recently turned 17, and am working towards my PPL(well actually my Rec Permit for now) at the Flying Club(and actually, I've decided to switch to Juan Air). However, I don't YET work for Canwest, but I have applied and talked to the owner and manager (I won't go saying their names here), and have been promised a spot for the summer. Until now, I figured I was one of a kind in this city! I would have sent you a private message, but as this is my first post, I suppose I don't yet have the authority. Anyways, my hotmail is [email protected]

While I'm at it, I guess I'll fill you guys in on my tentative plans... lemme know watcha think!
I'm also a serious Basketball player, and my plan is to use this as a tool; After Grade 12, if all goes well, I will attend UCFV, and play ball there (on a side note, they're becoming a CIS school as of next year, so I'd get to play against my brother, starting guard for TRU in Kamloops!!), and hopefully even get some kind of a scholarship for doing so. The reason why I've chosen UCFV is because of Coastal Pacific http://www.coastalpacific.com/

A relative of mine is an FO for Westjet, and he tells me that it is one of Canada's finest flight schools. Upon completion at Coastal Pacific, if I understand rightly, I'll hold a degree in Bus. Admin, and have everything but an ATPL, as well as sufficient hours to land me some kind of a regional gig.
Of course, the ultimate goal is flying heavies for Air Canada. And believe me, I'll do whatever it takes to get there, so all ideas are more than welcome.

and flystraightin, sorry man, not trying to steal the show hear, but i guess this applies to both of us.

Cam you're such an idiot LOL...who else would this be? call me