ATP Written
 

I am in the process of studying to take my ATP written. I understand that it does not matter if you take either the 121 or the 135 test. I currently work for a 121 carrier but thought about taking the 135 test because it says to only study the 1900 performance questions rather than the 737, 727, and DC-9 questions. Could someone please verify that you can take the 135 written and still serve as a captain with a 121 operator?

Also, regarding the expiration date of the written. I understand that if you work for a 121 or 135 carrier, it will not expire. But if you get furloughed, and the clock begins to run down on it and then get hired by another carrier, does it go back to never expiring?

My findings are that if you are in a 121 enviornment or plan on it...take the 121. The performance questions are very easy and all the 121 aircraft are similar in method of calculations.

It has been 8 or 9 years but when I studied for it I just learned 1 aircraft (727 I think) and just learned to read the charts and did not even bother with the rest of the performance. Same goes with the W&B. If you just learn to use the charts real quickly I think it saves time than some others who try to memorize answers. Sure you have to pay more attention when you take the test but you should anyways.

I studied for 2 or 3 days took 2 practice test and then took the real thing. If you have the option of taking a practice test or 2 this helps you decide if you need to study the perf/w&B more.

When it comes to 135 vs 121 I dont think it makes a huge dif. I took my ATP ride in the mighty Piper Seminole because I was bored and stuck instructing after the industry fall in 01. The examiner never even asked which test I took in this case.

Yeah, I bought the Gleim book online along with a practice CD. It allows you to answer questions and it will tell you immediately if you got it right or wrong and why. It also allows you to take a practice tests in either the Lasergrade or the CATS format. I dont want to come across as lazy but I think if I could save myself the trouble of having to worry about an additional 300 questions (difference between 121 and 135), I would like to take it. It would be just more questions I would not have to worry about messing up on.

Do the 121 and just memorize the answers for the performance questions.

Take the 121 exam, it's not too different.
Comair requires ATP written to be hired. I took mine in January 07 a few days before I started. I was furloughed January 09....so, back to studying for it again because it expired since I was furloughed.

I don't have the regs, but I recall they say something like "an ATP applicant upgrading at a 121 carrier can use an expired ATP written".

There are no qualifiers about gaps in employment or where you were when you took the test. I think you could have taken it before you ever applied for an airline, let it expire, got hired by an airline, and then use it to upgrade. Some airlines require a current ATP written to interview, but that has nothing to do with the FARs.

Spend the $300 and go to ATP to take the test. It's a breeze. Rather then racking your brains for weeks trying to teach yourself computations that you are going to forget as soon as your click "Submit Test"...just do the ATP course and get it out of the way in 1 day!!! I did it, and never looked back! Good luck!

2nd vote for ATP. Arrived at 9am, left at 3pm with it all done.

I did the same and it was so easy. Before you say "$300 on my salary," think about it.

The gleim book is $35, the CD rom is $65 and you will spend $60-$90 to take the written at a testing center. Plus hours and hours of your time. I did the ATP program, bought $0 in books or computer prep software, and only used about 4 hours of my life.

Plus, the $300 can be deducted of taxes because it is a work related expense on your schedule A.

So can the book, CD, and testing fee....right?

x3

I flew a redeye, drove from PHX to Willy, paid my money....

9 hours and 14 cups of coffee later, I scored a 96%. No previous prep (other than being a 121 pilot).

yes, but you are missing the point. Since you can write off the $300 the true cost is closer to $250 vs $120 or so (including writeoff) for the study material. That leaves a net of $130.

To me I would rather drop the extra $130 then drop 20+ hours of my life going through the book and the thousand+ possible questions

or do sheppardair.com...cheaper than ATP and the SAME THING....... i am mad bc i took my atp written aug 08... I am short on the hours right now and will be air force pilot trianing when it expires... there is something in the FAR's about it not expiring if you fly a transport catagory military aircraft.... I have to look into it more.. I am not a lasergrade proctor and it makes it difficult for me to take writtens........plus studying for it again

For those who did go to ATP and do their one day program, could you please provide some information on how they prepare you? All it says on their website is that you show up at 8:30am and take the written at 6:00pm. Do they guarantee that you will pass? I assume there is no way they can. I want to make sure I am fully prepared for the exam and do not want to bust it one or two times before I pass. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Dash,

Dont over complicate it.

You show up with just the cash and your id. Study their computerized gouge of about 500 questions. When you like your score tell them you are ready to take the test, you can do this at any time and nobody waits till 6pm to take it.. The test is made of the same questions you just practiced on. It is easy and you do not need to study before. I got a 98% and was there for 3 hours.

A Chimp with $300 can pass it.

Juice-

Can you clarify how ATP simplifies the original version of the test in a way that makes "their version" easier to pass?

TIA

ALL ATP's narrowed the test bank down to the 500 questions (or so) of the most commonly asked questions on the ATP/w. (Some computer nerd with too much time on his hand figured out the algorithm of the FAA computer test bank, basically) They then made their own CBT program out of this.

When you go in for your study session, they should give you a "cheat sheet" with tips on how to answer questions.

Example: In this question, if these key words, "xxx, xxx, and xxx" are in the question, the answer is "C"

...stuff like that

I took the ATP about 6 years ago and still remember that, if flying to Buffalo, choose the slowest mach number. Of course there was one exception, that I have long forgotten.

Can you use this "cheat sheet" during the exam?

Nope...but you use it to study your practice tests with. All it is teaching you is word recognition. Certain key words are associated with certain answers --- just to make the memorization process quicker and easier. It's especially handy when doing the performance and weight shift calculations!!! You don't even have to bust out a calculator/E6B or anything!!!

I'd recommend the Sheppardair program. It's the same thing as ATP, but only $75. You can download the software on your computer and study at your own pace. Plus Sheppardair has a money back guarantee. Best $75 I've ever spent. Studied for 2 days for a couple hours and got a 90.

I also did the ATP thing a while back (when it was a bit less than $300) and it's worth the money!!! Except it took me more like 5 hours to prepare (maybe I'm just old:confused:). Anyways, no matter what your method of studying you'll be ready for the test, I think I got a 90 or a 92. Of course there's no guarantees, I've heard of a few folks that actually failed it because they thought that the school was going to give them the answers during the test. You actually have to study a bit, but hey! It's only for one day.

Good luck.

The ATP 121 is good for 135 and 121....

The ATP 135 is ONLY GOOD FOR 135.... NOT FOR 121.

TAKE THE 121!!!!

Just another worthless hoop to jump through. The FARs and certificate written tests need to be updated. 727, 737 and DC-9? How about CRJ/ERJ, 75/76 or Airbus performance questions?

Sad!







OO.

Another vote for sheppardair.com

Don't waste time, travel, or money on anything else.

99% for me after studying for a couple of days....and I'm an idiot.

Yet another vote for Sheppardair. I did it prior to my Comair interview last summer, also. I got a 99 on it, too. Studied for a couple of hours, three days, no 121 background. If you have any questions, they have an instructor 24 hours available on phone also. I seriously recommend it. Forget this $300 thing. Download the program and the study guide that comes along with it. It's a great deal. (The program itself looks really cheesy, though, but who cares...it's the content anyway). I believe they have a guarantee where if you find a question in your written that wasn't in the study guide, they'll refund your money or something like that. Luckily, all the questions in the written I had already seen in the program already. It literally took me 15 minutes to get the ATP written done.

Ok, done....hope I didn't sound like a Billy Mays.

Absolutely agree.
With the info I had at the time (pre ATP) and my experience now with actually completing the ATP; IT IS A NO BRAINER. When it was time for me to take the ATP I worked with a few guys that studied for months and said it was the hardest thing to do; some even failed and were on their second attempt. After learning from others experience I decided to spend the $300.00 and travel 3 hours one way to do it the one day ATP route. I did no prior study and passed with over 80%. I drove back home the same day with a weight off my chest and plenty of extra time to make up the money I spent on it. Do yourself a favor and spend a little to save yourself ALOT. I am a 121 FO and I have not used anything that test had to offer that I did not already know as a flight instructor or was taught to me (aircraft specific) by my airline.

I did Sheppardair. I took the ATP in 10 minutes and got a 96....

I'm another sheppard air vote... needed it for an interview last year... looked at the options $75 vs. 300 I'm a pilot I'm naturally cheap so... three days light studying took the test in 15mins got 100%

The people at sheppards air are nice available 24/7 if you have any questions and always adding new tips and tricks their stuff

Good luck

Sheppard Air is closer to $150 once you drive to a testing center and add the testing fee, right?

I think it comes down to $150 vs $300.

The $300 option takes no prior study, done in around 6 hours and walk out with the written.

the $150 takes a few days of light studying and then going to a testing center to take the test.

I think it just comes down to the individual. Some would rather pay 300 and get it done on a Saturday, some would rather save 150 bucks and spend a few days at the house studying for it.

It all depends on what you want.

Don't study! The $300 dollar version is the best rip off in aviation. It's is worth the extra 150.

...or you just buy a red Gleim book, study for an hour or two each day for a week or two (if that much), and pass it with a score in the low 80s. Total cost for study guide plus CATS/Lasergrade knowledge test - about $100.

If you've been flying 121, the test is a JOKE...outside of the performance and w&b questions, which you just memorize the answers and the simple weight shift equation.

What sucks about the Gleim is that it provides you with a greater question bank than Sheppard or ATP. Therefore, you waste a lot of time in questions that you'll never see anyway. For me, the $150 difference is huge. Besides, you don't have to travel anywhere far. Just study from home.

People forget that regardless of which route you take, you're still gonna have to study a lot and memorize. I don't see myself studying for 6 hours straight. That'd bring me to the borderline of insanity.

So I took everyone's advise and looked into the Sheppardair.com version. I downloaded the free trial with 61 questions, went through them once with the correct answers. Waited a little while then went through them again with the answers and questions mixed up and got a 92%!. It is amazing how your mind immediately picks out the right answer. There were some where I did not even need to read the questions. I know the full version will have 700+ questions to look through but get 92% right only going through once impresses me enough to buy this program. Thank you to all who recommended it. I figure 3 or 4 days of studying the 700+ questions should be more than sufficent. I will be interested in how the performance and figure questions pan out. Thanks again!!

Amen. Ditto for me, Atp's written program is awesome!!! Show up 8am, run through the program twice, took the actual test in 19 minutes. According to the instructor, that was the quickest he had see haha. On my way home at 4pm. Ridiculous test done.

I too did ATP's test prep and recommend it.

I also recommend their method of study... only look at the correct answers. (IE rote memorization of question and answer).

If you study using the gleim, I suggest you study in this manner as well. Simply cross off all of the incorrect answers and study the correct ones.

The fact is that all writtens are kind of stupid any more. Most of the materials are out dated or you already know (or should) from training. The whole thing is simply an exercise to "check the box". The real checking of whether you know the material happens in training and the checkride.

This is absolutely not true. I took the 135 version back when I was flying 135. I am now flying 121, and had no problems with the interview or anything. The 135 test is much easier... not only are there less calculations, but there are less regulations to memorize. I had the gleim cd, that I got for free from my flight school, studied a couple of days, and passed the test with a 90% in about 10 min. Total cost: $80 to the testing center.

Don't take it again if you plan on going back to an airline. You don't have to be continuously employed or even employed by the same company. I was on my third airline before I upgraded, I think it expired on my first. No big deal.

Dash:

I did the Sheppard Air too. I studied sproadically for about two weeks and got a 98% in about 10 minutes. Sheppard has figured out a pattern for you to memorize for the performance questions, that really simplify things.

Good luck