bahama trip
 

I have a question. If you put three pilots and one instructor in an airplane and went on a trip to the bahamas, would it be considered an illegal charter if the instructor was paid to be there, and everyone else paid for it?

Who owns the airplane? If it's one of the three pilots, no problem. If it belongs to the FBO that the instructor works for, possible problem. If it belongs to the instructor, definite problem.

Joe

As long as you aren't paying the CFI to fly you to the bahamas, it isn't a Charter. If you're just paying him for instruction, you're fine. You will, of course, need a 100 hour since you are paying him for instruction. Also, keep in mind he can only instruct for 8 hours in any given 24 hour period. I can see where this could raise questions, but if he is legitimately giving flight instruction then it's legal, regardless who owns the plane. (If I'm wrong please quote me the regs...I can't find anything that says this would be an illegal charter.)

what 100 hour?
 

Why the 100 hour?

If the instructor is renting the plane to the pilots, then yes, a 100 hour is required.

If one of the pilots owns it and is not charging for its service. Then no 100 hour is needed. ehh?

They're basically doing a long dual cross country.

If the plane is owned by one of the three pilots, fine, no problem.

If the plane is a rental, then this has the appearance of an illegal charter (three pax, going to a vacation destination).

If ramp checked the Fed could write you up, and then it is up to you to prove that what you were doing is legal.

If this is a Cessna 182 and one or more of the other pilots is working on his instrument ticket and logs four hours of simulated instrument instruction time and a couple of approaches, and you log the time as instruction time, there should not be a problem.

If it is a cabin class twin and you are alone up front while the other three pilots have martinis in the back, this is a problem.

Joe

Sorry if this is naive of me but I just have my PPL working on MEL and am wondering why it would be illegal? Is it because it is a charter and you have to be certified by the FAA to run a charter service? I would think the CFI could fly for hire since he obviously has his commercial ticket.

This is a VERY complicated topic of discussion, with many gray areas. Commercial pilots are often confused about this, but here's a very simplified summary.

A commercial pilot acting alone can be hired to fly an airplane owned (or possibly not owned but provided) by a passenger.

In order to provide charter services to the public (where you provide the plane and pilot), you need a 135 or 121 operating certificate.

If the pilot rents the airplane, that is charter. If the pax rents the airplane that may or may not be charter...it's often a gray area, and it is not good if the pilot has an ongoing relationship with the rental agency.

An CFI can only fly as an instructor if there is legit instruction occurring. You cannot operate an illegal charter op by pretending to give instruction to your passenger...the FAA is smarter than that and will catch on. However...if legit instruction is occurring, you can perform almost any flying reasonably associated with that (XC, weekend getaway, pax in the back,etc).

There are some other issues, such as "holding out", which will no doubt confuse the heck out of you when you go for your commercial.

You may want to check out the validity of international flight training. I'm not sure that it really counts unless you're in Alaska or something... I could be totally wrong but you may want to reference that. It could make or break your adventure (or really the logging of it). Generally the FAA would not see the validity in a 300nm intl xc for an add on rating. If it is a commercial you are working towards...I think the xc's have to be domestic (at least in the conus)...
Could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) but just reference it...I'm too lazy to right now. :)

are you saying that you can't log flight time that occurs outside of the US??? i have never heard of that- where could you find out if it is legit or not?

You can log whatever you want to.... as far as flight training goes... I did a quick look of 61 and 91 and couldn't find anything to back up what I said.... just remember reading it somewhere. I'll ask a few guys around here... but I guess if it doesn't it say you can't do it in 61 and 91 than it may be alright.... just wish I could remember where I saw that at. :rolleyes: