Duksrule

I have my PPL and am now starting instrument training. Can I log the time I spend with the instructor in the airplane as PIC? I know it is "flight training" and "total time" but what about PIC?

GrUpGrDn

if you are rated in the a/c and sole manipulator of the controls

250 or point 65

and rated for the type of flight. can log PIC when you're in IMC.

Duksrule

It is a C172 so no rating for a/c. I am checked out in it though and the person at the controls. If we are in VFR conditions an I am just "under the hood" then I guess I am rated for the type of flight. So yes I can log it as PIC?

Then if we happen to get into IMC sinse I am not rated for IMC, I can't log that time as PIC?

rickair7777

Yes, you can log PIC under the "sole manipulator" provision as long as you are doing the flying. You are not the actual PIC under those conditions, but you can log it.

Burrito Bandit

Here's another tip:

Don't "happen to get into IMC" If you're going to, plan on it and have your CFII file an IFR flight plan and follow it.

VFR into IMC is wrong, illegal and dangerous.

Good luck on the instrument rating, it will make you fly smarter, safer and to more places!

NoyGonnaDoIt

There is no requirement that you be rated for the "type of flight" in order to log PIC as sole manipulator of the controls - only the applicable aircraft rating is required.

Instrument student (no instrument rating) rated ASEL being the sole manipulator of the controls of a 172 may log PIC. There's nothing in 61.51(e)(1)(i) that requires a "type of flight" rating.

Charley 2

Look at this
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/pic.html

" A pilot may log PIC time when he/she is the sole occupant of the aircraft; is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges; or is acting as PIC where more than one pilot is required (FAR 1.1, 61.51e)............

...........A pilot, whether acting as PIC or not mahy log PIC time any time in which he//she is sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he/she is rated (FAR 61.51). This is true regardless of weather conditions, whether VFR or IFR, simulated or actual.

"Rated," by FAA interpretation, means that the pilot has the appropriate category, class, and typoe (if required) priveleges on his/her pilot certificate for the airctaft being operated. Period. Note that "rated" does not require the pilot to have an instrument rating, a current medical, recency of experience, biennial flight review or required endorsements ( such as tailwheel or high performance).

For example, if you are a non-iinstrument rated private pilot with airplane, single engine land privileges, you would be considered appropriately "rated" to log PIC atime anytime (in VFR or IFR conditions) you are sole manipulator of the controls of any (high performance or tailwheel) single engine airplane configured for takeoff and landing on land (unless, of course the airplane required a specific type rating........etc........

Remember, although a pilot may log flight time as PIC under this provision, there must still be someone in the aircraft who is legally acting as PIC.

My instrument instructor did not agree, however, with this opinion when adding up my PIC time requirement for the rating.

Check with your local FSDO or DPE for their interpretation......AOPA don't make or enforce the rules.

plasticpi

I have read and been involved with several discussions among instructors, examiners, and inspectors about this, and the moral of the story is what Charley said, you can log PIC time in this situation, but you are not really acting as PIC during the IMC time. Logging and acting as PIC are addressed separately in the regulations, so it does get confusing.

But, if you think about it, why would be allowed to log PIC during simulated instrument, but not actual? In either case, you are reliant upon another pair of eyes to keep the flight safe, so the difference in what you are doing is (in theory) absolutely nothing. It's just that your safety pilot needs a different qualification to act as a safety pilot in those conditions.

Green Banana

If you are logging time to one day apply for an airline, most will not accept this type of PIC. When you fill out an application, you cannot log DUAL RECIEVED and PIC at the same time. You are either a student or a PIC, not both. While it is legal to log as PIC in the FAA's eyes, airlines don't like it. Most applications have a PIC(solo) + SIC + DUAL RECIEVED = Total Time. If the numbers do not add up, expect questions.