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I'm fine with $45,000 of debt, but...

Old 03-03-2010, 03:46 PM
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Default I'm fine with $45,000 of debt, but...

...how am I going to pay it off after college!?

I'm looking into the Professional Pilot concentration at Middle Tennessee State University. Looking at the costs, I'm looking at the neighborhood of $45,000. That's a lot of bank. I'm fine with that kind of debt as long as the payments are possible for me to make.

Then I was told that the payments would be in the neighborhood of $600/month. Can I even make that much instructing? Heck, I'm fine with living on ramen noodles, thrift stores and an air mattress in an apartment above a drug den.

So, looking to post-graduation, what is the market like for flight instructors? I'm willing to move anywhere as long as I'm getting my hours and I'm surviving financially.

What do you guys think? I just wanna fly guys!
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:16 PM
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Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm going to do MTSU's Air Traffic-College Training Initiative program on the side. I'm also interested in ATC and I would enjoy doing it almost as much as flying (like 90% compared to 100%). And ATC does have its advantages because it's more of your family man job than piloting. So I've decided that I want to get into that on the side.

I guess this is a question I'll ask the MTSU faculty to confirm, but I'm just curious if anyone here is in it or knows someone in it. After completing the program, you can go to the FAA training center in Oklahoma. Can I do my flight instructing and keep this ATC gig in my back pocket as a backup, or am I going to have to choose right out of graduation? Ideally I'd like to move to somewhere with a bustling flight school and try my hand at getting into the regionals before I'm 30. But if I get to 30 and I haven't made much (see: any) progression besides stockpiling hours, I'd then go to Oklahoma City.

Think I can pull this off?
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:32 PM
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If you flight instruct 50 hours/month at $12/hour you gross $600. That's before taxes, food, rent, beer, hookers, etc. Maybe more if you get paid for ground instruction (you should).

When things are really going you might be able to instruct 100 hours per month, but I don't think that is an option now or in the near future for most instructors. You might need a side job...

When you get a regional job, you will gross $1400-1900/month first year, then $2100-4000/month. This varies by airline and equipment.

When you upgrade to regional CA, you should be able to make your loan payments and live a decent life assuming that you don't have a family to support. Assume that will take 6-12 years from when you start work as a CFI.

Last edited by rickair7777; 03-04-2010 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OdeToMemory View Post

Heck, I'm fine with living on ramen noodles, thrift stores and an air mattress in an apartment above a drug den.


What do you guys think? I just wanna fly guys!

The outrageous views such as this is the reason why we make so little money. Please get the "I just wanna fly" notion out of your head, it wears off real quick when it comes to having an actual flying job with bills to pay.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:32 PM
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Since I'm always happy to help someone else out, let me save you some time and effort.

I'll sign over $45K of unsecured debt to you, and you can to straight to living above a drug den, shopping at thrift stores, eating Ramen noodles, and paying off a pile of debt. Meanwhile, you can get a job as an assistant manager at Wendy's, eventually move to manager, and then into a regional position. You'll spend more time at home, probably make more money, and spend less time collecting unemployment than if you go into aviation (flight).

ATC is a decent option, though I hear about the caustic culture that exists within the FAA on the ATC side. I have a friend who is two years away from retirement as a controller - he'll be 46 (he co-op'd while in college). He'll have a good government retirement and then start on a second career in something he really enjoys, having the assurance the he can pay the bills with the retirement from his first career.

As far as instructing and ATC, thanks to Mary "mentally stillborn" Schiavo, there are now restrictions about being able to instruct at or near the facility you control at, due to perceived conflict of interest (like you would give the 152's at your school preferential handling). This brought to you by the same genius that decided that controllers riding along in the cockpit made too damn much sense and eliminated it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
When you get a regional job...

When you upgrade to regional CA...
These comments are very assuming. There are career options other than flying for a regional.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:52 PM
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I'll give rick a break from his usual speech and summarize it for you:

Go to school in something else you want to do (ANYTHING...even underwater basket weaving). Pay for that. Get a job after graduation and pay your way at a local part 61 school getting your certs and ratings part time. Then get a CFI gig to start building hours. Only THEN should you apply for airlines. You go into a subpoverty level job with no debt which is better than going into said subpoverty level job with 45,000 in debt.

Sorry rick if it wasn't as eloquent as you I've only said it a few times.

Regardless, unless you have mommy and daddy backing you financially you might not even make enough when you graduate as a CFI to pay your INTEREST payments.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:50 PM
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Default Respect yourself

In todays and the foreseeable market, becoming a commercial pilot because of your love for flying is akin to becoming a prostitute because you love sex.

If you truly want to fly, take the 45G'$ and buy yourself a plane...you'll respect yourself in the morning.

Large quantities of time, money and effort are spent to get you into the right seat. Just when you get comfortable in that seat, it is yanked from under you. That's because your company just laid you off. (Expect this to happen two or three times before you find a job that sticks). Your now into your career for 10+ years. Each time you start a new job you start at the bottom, that's because seniority defines you. You start over each time making beans, dreaming, hoping, hating to fly...

...Buy that plane if you truly love flying, don't sell your dreams short.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:47 PM
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I attended MTSU and finished in spring '07 with my degree in aviation. It may be too early in my career to regret getting a degree in aviation, we will see though.

My path is a little different. All during college I worked at an FBO fueling aircraft. It was the best job I have ever had. It was fun, got to be around airplanes, and the networking was great. I got to ride along on some King Air trips and noticed that I like the corporate flying. After graduation I applied to Pinnacle as a crew scheduler thinking I could get my foot in the door. The day after moving back to Memphis I got a call for an interview and got a job as a 9E CS. I did that for 4 months then became a sector manager in the dispatch department. My foot is still in the door there. I have my CFI/CFII as well. I work 4 days on and 4 days off making $37K per year. On my off days I instruct and do corporate flying in Cirrus aircraft.

During my 2.5 years at Pinnacle I have come to realize that a Part 121 pilot is not my long term goal. When you get to the regionals you will understand, I am not even in the pilot ranks and see how bad it is. I realize I may have to fly for a regional to build jet time to get a lucrative corporate job down the road. That is the reason I am still working for Pinnacle. I already have a FO slot when we start hiring again. I have $2500 left to pay on my school loans then I will be done.

I guess what I am trying to say is what ever path you decide on keep a few things in mind:

First, make sure you can support yourself and your family if you have one. That should come first over any shelfish desire to fly. For me it is a 40 hr/week job and flying on the side.

Second, networking is so very important. If you rub someone the wrong way or burn a bridge, those people talk to other people and you start to have a bad reputation that will prevent you from getting a job in an area. Be nice to people and stay in touch with everyone. A line job at an FBO is good way of doing that.

Third, make your self marketable. Meaning, get that CFI/CFII/MEI when you get to that point. Do not pen in flight time though. Some people get away with it but you do not want to be the person to get caught.

I hope all this helped. MTSU was a good program. The Boro stunk though. Sorry if you find spelling and grammatical errors. It is 2am. Sorry to hear about Kiffin leaving UT too.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by AKASHA View Post
These comments are very assuming. There are career options other than flying for a regional.
Yes, I did make an assumption based on the fact that we are having this discussion on AIRLINE Pilot Central.

But I know plenty of regional FO's would love a corporate position...those aren't easy to get, I suspect you will pay even more dues on that route.
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