for those who keep going...
 

I flew with a guy today who quit flying for a regional just because he could not afford to live with what he made. It was a great flight, one of my 50 hours of cross countries required for the IFR rating. I have close to about 30 now, and I am having a blast exploring new destinations. So how is everybody who is training doing I wonder? Sometimes I feel like I am just doing it because it's something I've always wanted to do, and cruising along today on the way back, I am thinking, this is the best place on Earth sitting in this plane, listening to the drone of the engine, atc, there is nowhere else I would want to be right now. I wish I could do this for a living...
I was given a first hand account of what flying for a regional is like, and it did not sound very good, needless to say. So I am thinking, I absolutely love flying, but I would never want to quit, that would be devastating...And he loves flying too, but circumstances are so that it is not a realistic venture for him anymore. Sure I am single right now and I could easily live with a salary like that, but, my question to all of you is that, is flying for a career a realistic goal? I have spend thousands on flying, and have loved every single minute of it, and I would hate for that to go for waste if it is not realistic anymore.
So it is time for me to set some realistic goals. Perhaps, flying in the U.S. is a bad idea, and aviation is obviously booming in the middle-east, India, etc. and I should look into opportunities over there if I want to fly for a living. I feel like this sounds like a more realistic goal than trying to find a gig in the U.S. Like most of you, flying for me is a passion, and I would really like to make it a career someday, but I want to be realistic about it too. Any thoughts, opinions, are welcome.

Well, I'm fairly new but I'm having more fun now than ever as an instructor. And I've got some good friends at SWA who would do what they do for minimum wage. There are many people in between who are not enjoying it so much though. I don't see any reason to not continue with an instrument though, even if you don't become a pro pilot you will still use it if you ever fly recreationaly.

Unless you have tons of time in make and model or are a citizen of the foreign carrier you wish to work for, they will not hire you. There are enough pilots on the streets that are desperate enough and have the time, but still cannot get hired.

There is no shortcut to a 121 job. There is no shortcut to any pilot job that pays enough to really live. You are lucky to get a job that pays for food or rent, not both. Right now, I have what is considered a great job in this market. My flight pay is pretty high and I get to fly some interesting aircraft, but if you consider all the work I do outside of the cockpit that I do not get paid for, the job does not look so good. I sit around the airport all day everyday waiting for anyone who walks in and wants to fly. I am at the airport organizing files and preparing for flights 84 hours a week, but on average I only get paid and fly for 10 hours a week. My income is dependent on weather, aircraft availability, and more importantly, a steady supply of customers. There is no type of flying that is worth the stress of not knowing if you will be able to pay your bills no matter how hard you work.

The best option is to enjoy training now and not plan on a career in aviation. Look into other careers. Nearly any other field will allow you to earn more money than a low time pilot job and you can still fly on the side as a part time instructor.

On a side note, a doctor told me as he got in the plane that he was jealous of my job. He said he would gladly trade places with me because he was sick of working 60 hours a week in a hospital. That made me feel pretty good until he told me he was buying his own aircraft and wanted to know if a Cessna 421 would be big enough for him and his wife!

Pearl it's a very realistic goal depending on how bad you want it. I started, out of high school by getting a job as a line-boy at the local FBO and paid for my private license that way. The left eye wasn't 20/20, so the military route was out (back then). If I had a dime for everytime someone told me that "you'll never make it", I'd have a boat-load of dimes:D. I made it, you can too. Good luck to you.
fbh

While often grueling, CFI is probably the most enjoyable phase of an aviation career. Lot's of flexibility, you have something to do while flying aside from burning a hole in the sky, and you and all your buds can hit the local pub together when the day is done.

My ten years in commercial aviation says BS to this...SWA is a good company as far as airlines go, but the schedules are hard and nobody who has put in the requisite time and effort to get a job at SWA would do it for anywhere near minimum wage. Minimum wage for those guys is six figures.

Airline flying gets old after a few years, only bush flying, military tactical, or maybe law enforcement stays fun.

Unless it's going to break the bank, yeah get the IR. If you like aviation as much as you say you will probably keep flying GA...the IR can get you lower insurance premiums and will make you a better pilot.

It's hard to recommend this career at this point...there are too many things gone wrong and any possible future improvement is strictly speculation. There are no obvious industry conditions which would indicate improvement in the foreseeable future.

And the most adventurous! I really have learned a lot from my student's and boy do they keep me on my toes. You get the slightest bit complacent and they will throw a fast ball.

Unfortunately, I have to (respectfully) throw the BS flag on that one. I know a person who just got hired at an airline with a fraction of what people are getting hired now because of some strong internal connections. For MOST people there are no shortcuts, but for some there are.

I know someone who won the lottery, but that doesn't mean I should expect to win the lottery. Everyone knows someone or knows someone who knows someone who got hired with extremely low hours or has lied about the hours they have. The reality is, that happens to a very small percentage of pilots.

I believe a big problem for pilots in training is believing they will be the lucky ones who get hired early on and then go through their career without an single furlough. If we keep repeating the stories we have heard of people who have gotten lucky, it will create unrealistic expectations. It is just like students at a business school. Everyone wants to be the head of a global company, but the reality is, most will be in middle to upper management their entire life. The difference is middle to upper management earns them more money and gives them more time off than most pilot jobs. Also, their careers can excel based on their performance, not the date they were hired or how many hours they logged behind their desk.

Don't plan on any shortcuts in aviation. It is a career of chance and luck and to invest thousands of dollars in this career hoping that you get some mystery job after you get your commercial that allows you to advance your career overnight is just as foolish as going to a casino and putting all your money on black.

This has always been the case, if dad or uncle is a management pilot or a well-known senior CA at a major your airline career prospects are vastly different from the everyone else. All you need to do is meet the mins, and not get any dui's (well maybe one would be OK).

Same at the regionals, except you that it will only save you a few months or maybe compared to someone who had to get to the competitive mins. Of course sometimes competitive times are COM AMEL w/ 250 hours...

We all know the feeling. But let me suggest this for a "realistic goal": Find something else you like to do, another profession you can see yourself in, that is actually something that you can make a decent paycheck at. Accountant, electrician, contractor, orthdontist, orthopedic surgeon, whatever. In these times, I think every aspiring professional pilot needs a "back-up plan/back-up profession". In fact, if it eventually turns out that your "back-up profession" becomes your primary profession (most likely becuase of the financial rewards) then you may very well be able to buy yourself a nice airplane to fly wherever and whenever you want. I am not saying to give up your desire/plan/dream to fly for a living........ just understand reality (years of crappy flying jobs, low pay, and time away from home before you possibly get that good flying job); and, most important, have a back-up plan to earn a decent wage and have a reasonably nice quality of life.

Flying vs flying for a living
 

I hear that!

Consider, though, that perhaps you'd be satisfied with a middle ground. You might get a job as an accountant, lawyer, salesman, or whatever, and fly on the side. All it takes is money. And there are plenty of ways to fly on the side for less money, such as AngelFlight, glider towing (doesn't pay at my soaring club, but it's free flying time and a lot of fun) and flying yourself on business trips.

I actually thought I might hear some positive stuff like, keep going, the industry will get better, hiring will resume, and there is always a shot etc. But I am not surprised to hear that the industry is not what it used to be, and that having a backup is the way to go, and flying for fun is a much better plan than trying to make it a living. Although hiring would resume, I also believe that trying to make it a living seems very unrealistic right now. So I will stick to my full-time job and enjoy flying and work on that IR. My plan is the same, I want to make it a living, and I will try my best and see how it goes. Good luck to all!

I dropped out of flight school because of a mixture of not liking the money hungry academy I was going to and contemplating my future in the aviation field . I literally have been coming on here since I was a kid and I'm now 19. People on here are really negative about a career in aviation, I seriously tried to drop aviation because of people on here; being 12 at the time I was crushed. Like everyone else here flying is one of those things you can't shake and we all know it, it's the reason we come on this site. Well I started flying last year loved it even when I got sick and annoyed during training I still looked forward to saying airspeed alive and taking off. Realism hit me I was already getting into loans etc and the industry keeps getting narrower etc. I am now contemplateing things I really can't think of anyhting else I would do as a career other than flying because I like nice expensive things. I did plenty of internships over the years in serious fields, even though I was good at those things that would pay me 6 figures I would hate coming to work everyday for the rest of my life. Like the pharmacists I worked with they seem to dread their jobs even though their field starts you out with a 6 fig salary. If you're a free spirit and not materialistic go for it if not then find another profession. (It's always easy for people to say have a back up profession if you like aviation so much, but who in the world can go to school for a 6 fig profession and pilot training you have to be focused as hell and have wealthy parents med school is not cheap...)

I think what most people are trying to inform those that don't know, is that the return on investment will take many many many years as the pay-scales are horrible now, and work conditions aren't as glamorous as most people think. It's more about education than just being negative.

Med school is way too much. I would recommend nursing, pharmacy, PA, or maybe computer science.

If I could chose (I have more than one backup career, but that all happened accidentally) I would go with pharmacy. This job is extremely portable, not as stressful as nursing, and requires minimal on-going "proficiency" training. PA would be a close second (I'd rather do sick call than change bed pans).

Computer science (programming) has several advantages...
- You can get a 4-year BS and be employable without extra schooling.
- It's very portable and flexible in that you can do it anywhere, even on the road whenever you want (just meet the project deadline).
- If you move, you don't necessarily have to switch employers.

Downsides to programming would be that your income and work opportunities depend on your natural ability and the effort you put in. You also need to stay current because this field changes rapidly.

The ideal path to an aviation career would be to start out in one these flexible "backup" fields as your plan A. Obviously pick one you like or can at least tolerate which has good pay and lifestyle. Do flight training on the side as you can pay for it, then become a part time CFI. General aviation is a blast, so that in and of itself would be enjoyable.

Build some time and watch the airline industry...if it looks good at some point you can give it a shot. Remember to try to get in at the beginning of the hiring wave...if you wait too long out of caution or uncertainty, you will either get furloughed or stuck on reserve for years. If you make the jump your "backup" career warm on the back burner...it will help cover the substandard income and leave you an escape route.

The simple fact of life now is that aviation is totally unsuitable as a reliable career from an economic perspective (except for those who already CA's at FDX/UPS/SWA) ...if you want to partake, you need to take responsibility for your own financial well-being.

Might the industry improve someday? Maybe, but it's hard to say. There's nothing to indicate that any positive change will be forthcoming, but there are many potential hurdles. Fuel costs and rampant environmentalism are the big boggiemen IMO...hopefully some of the promising green fuels can be brought online quickly and affordably when the time comes.

General Aviation Option
 

I did the Computer Science thing and started climbing the pay scales. Very happy where I am now.

Find a flying club. Usually there are instructors involved, the rental rates are cheaper, and you may not have to live with the FBO's restrictive rental policy (no IFR, limited overnights or 3 hour/day minimum).

Our flying club fizzled after we lost the leaseback on the aircraft, plus 9/11 put a damper on things, BUT five of the club members went in on a Mooney and we formed an LLC. Two of them were instructors, so we had cheap learning. I can hop in the Mooney 24/day and take her for weeks with no minimum daily charges.

It's a choice you'll have to make. Airlines and not being home and all of the other fun the working pilots on the forum have mentioned vs. ownership and the expense that will entail.

Backup career
 

Funny. I find a lot of pilots advising a career in IT/computer science as a backup in case the aviation career doesn't work out as expected.

Be careful though. Having a computer science background myself, I can tell you that in the IT industry, things have changed and are changing as well. And not for the better, as you might guess, since software and hardware are becoming more and more commodity.

Cheap labor from IT people from India, China and elsewhere is readily available nowadays, and IT companies do massive outsourcing and cost-cutting. And we're not talking about the low-qualification IT helpdesk/hotline support people only. Whole projects and complex engineering tasks are increasingly being done in so-called "low-cost" locations.

There are certain parallels to the development of the pilot profession.
Once being regarded as a highly trained and rare specialists which translated into the respective compensation and opportunities, IT people have been facing an ever decreasing reputation and pay over the past years.
You *may* be lucky and get a good job (like I did years ago), but bear in mind that the golden times in IT are over.
I think that devaluation is a general problem of "techie" jobs.

Being a physician or a business suit is probably a fine thing.

Yes you should pursue a career in aviation if you like flying as much as you stated. Just remember that passenger airline flying is just one of the many over rated jobs in aviation. Broaden the scope of your search for opportunities in the industry. Something will work for you and make you happy. Don't look at the pay for justification to take a job or specific career track. I have worked in law enforcement, 135, 121 freight, 121 passenger, flight instructed and corporate aviation. I have recently moved into agricultural aviation and love it. I'm home every night, make a fair living for my time investment and absolutely love the flying. I also have enough free time to teach again which is something that I missed. I will never make what I could as a career 121 pilot but I don't care. You will just have to open your eyes to other possibilities and find what makes you happy as a person. With all of the opportunities in the aviation industry the chances of not finding a job you really like are slim in my opinion.

This is outstanding advice. This is the best advice by far. There are many exciting opportunities in aviation. Its a very rewarding career. Don't limit your scope to airline flying. It's true... too much of what you hear from those guys today will only bring you down. There's lots of fun ways to get paid flying. It won't make you rich. But it can make you happy.

"And I've got some good friends at SWA who would do what they do for minimum wage."

Translation: they would do it, provided they didn't have any bills.

I'd say, keep going for it, if you enjoy it, but take your time with it and try to pursue a backup career if you can. There is no reason to rush right now. There will be hiring again, but it'll be a few years from now. Plus, there are other really cool jobs in Aviation you could do too.

I work in Telecommunications, and instruct on the side. I am fairly busy, but I try to schedule my flights when my wife works, so we still get to spend time together. I make decent money with my regular job, and enough on the instruction side to store for a rainy day. All in all, it's pretty satisfying to be able to keep flying, even if it's for only a few hours per week. Plus, I am home every night and there is no harm done if I want to suddenly take a week or two off for a vacation. It's pretty sweet.

Someone single like you, OP, could easily do something like this once you get your instructor rating.