ATP study?
05-02-2010, 08:09 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,530
Originally Posted by nicholasblonde
Why don't you already have it, might I ask, if you have an ALPA sticker as your avatar and it says you're a FO? I've always assumed all 121 co's req. it as a prereq for hiring--guess I was wrong...
05-03-2010, 09:25 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
Originally Posted by Sniper
So far, the consensus is 'Sheppard Air', which costs $75.
You could actually learn the fundamentals of flying from the 1960's (while still relevant, some of the ATP test questions are 'a bit long in the tooth'). Or you could get the entire ATP question bank and study it. But if you can pay more, Sheppard Air will spoon-feed you the ATP written.
I don't disagree that Sheppard Air likely works, but it seems a disturbing trend to throw $ at the problem, similar to the 'quality vs. quantity' argument that the expensive four year flight colleges are using now, and the '350 hours to the right seat' programs of the recent past.
It looks more and more like the well-financed pilot is becoming the norm, rather than the knowledgeable, experienced pilot - and we, as pilots, are openly championing this new paradigm.
You could actually learn the fundamentals of flying from the 1960's (while still relevant, some of the ATP test questions are 'a bit long in the tooth'). Or you could get the entire ATP question bank and study it. But if you can pay more, Sheppard Air will spoon-feed you the ATP written.
I don't disagree that Sheppard Air likely works, but it seems a disturbing trend to throw $ at the problem, similar to the 'quality vs. quantity' argument that the expensive four year flight colleges are using now, and the '350 hours to the right seat' programs of the recent past.
It looks more and more like the well-financed pilot is becoming the norm, rather than the knowledgeable, experienced pilot - and we, as pilots, are openly championing this new paradigm.
I used Sheppard (I do take issue with $75 being spent as "throwing money at the problem or the fact that anyoen who could spend $75 for this is "well financed"), studied for a few days and got a 99% in less than 20 minutes.
While I was studying, I made an effort to check reference material cited in some of the questions for a more in-depth understanding of the material only to learn that a whole bunch of it is no longer in print. I remember searching the web high and low for one particular book that had been out of print for DECADES. I did find one old, beat-up version on E-Bay.
Needless to say, I didn't bother.
I did, however gain some insight into this matter and realized that anyone lamenting others for "doing it the easy way" by using the likes of Sheppard Air and Shebles for a check ride really fail to understand the point.
The ATP requires a tremendous amount of aeronautical experience before a check ride can even be taken....it is intended for experienced pilots. For one to say that one must undergo a rigorous ground school or flight training course before taking the ATP has failed to understand that the questions of the ATP written and the skills required by the check ride should be little trouble for a person who has gained the aeronautical experience required for the ATP....that's why there are 2 versions- one for a person who has been working 135 and one for a person who has been working 121.
However, per my admittedly anecdotal example, one can see that some of the questions were written from training and reference materials that are no longer in print.....and haven't been for decades.
Therefore, I say that use of such aids are more of a requirement in today's aviation training environment than some sort of a a "get there quick" solution, and no one who uses such methods should feel the need to explain themselves to anyone else.
In a related note, I've heard others scoffing at the ATP being a "joke" compared to other countries, namely EASA states. Perhaps if one were to look at the tests without any context, he or she might think that. However, keep mind that the applicants who sit the infamous "14 ATPl exams" in EASA states have absolutely no basis for comparison, no experience for correlation, and little to no aptitude for anything much better than a rote understanding of the material presented during an EASA ground school. In fact, when training EASA APTl candidates who have already passed the "rigorous" 14 exams, I find that the vast majority lack even basic knowledge of fundamental principles. For example, 75% can't tell me what kind of drag is created by the production of lift.
The US ATP written, while perhaps easy on it's face in comparison, is being taken by an experienced aviator who has already passed several check rides -to include sometimes rigorous oral exams, a practice not common in EASA state training- and written exams. I'd submit that as a whole, US ATP holders are no less knowledgeable on most subjects and perhaps much more knowledgeable on practical subjects that have actual bearing on the day-to-day operations of the Airline Transport Pilot rated aviator.
Anyway, sorry to head of on a tangent, but it seems that every thread about the ATP written or check ride has a couple of people who lament the process of acquiring the ATP in the US as being somehow incorrect, and I thought that I'd add my opinion.
Oh, and one more vote for Sheppard Air.
Last edited by sqwkvfr; 05-03-2010 at 09:39 AM.
05-03-2010, 09:32 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
Originally Posted by Sniper
For the record, I support testing more like the JAA theory exams. The answers must be published (that's the only way you know if you're learning the correct information), but the question bank should be many times larger, preventing pilots from memorizing the answers, but rather forcing a study of the underlying concepts.
The majority of students taking the EASA (former JAA) theory exams ARE studying question banks via companies like Bristol (think larger, much more expensive version of Sheppard Air.)
I also again stress that most of these tests are being taken by newbies who have never even touched an aircraft....limiting their ability to actually understand, retain and apply such material.
08-22-2010, 07:49 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: 737
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by scudrun
Just got the Shepherds Air software. Let me know if your interested in splitting some of the cost and ill give ya the username/password info. Its good for a year.
What you may be able to do is use it for a few weeks, take the test, and then pawn your username/password onto somebody else. They will have to call shepp's 1-800 number and pretend to be you in order to have it "reset" so it can be used from another machine
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