Mags on BOTH
05-18-2010, 06:22 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Right
Posts: 55
Mags on BOTH
I was curious to know what would happen if you had the master switch turned off on a C-172/C-182 but the key was still in the ignition on BOTH for a long period of time. It might be a simpler question than I thought, but what effect would that have on the plane if you left it on all night? Not to say it happened to anyone I know
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05-18-2010, 06:31 PM
#2
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Airframe
I was curious to know what would happen if you had the master switch turned off on a C-172/C-182 but the key was still in the ignition on BOTH for a long period of time. It might be a simpler question than I thought, but what effect would that have on the plane if you left it on all night? Not to say it happened to anyone I know.
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05-18-2010, 06:54 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Nothing would "happen". What did you think would "happen"?
If someone primed the engine, advanced the mixture to rich, and hand propped the engine, it would start without the master switch being on.
If someone primed the engine, advanced the mixture to rich, and hand propped the engine, it would start without the master switch being on.
05-18-2010, 10:20 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
Earlier posters have it correct.
Nothing adverse would happen to the aircraft in the situation described in the original post describing the keyed ignition switch being left in the "both" position with the electrical master switch off.
This comes with major caveats described above though.
Important points to take from this thread-
Most (all that I know of besides experimental and certified A/C with electronic ignition systems)(Porsche Mooney?) do not require an alternator or generator driven electrical system independent of magnetos to provide spark to their ignition systems. In other words- all tin cans you are gonna strap on run their spark for ignition from magnetos. Old school. Mechanical. They spin, and provide spark. Many reasons for this going back to early days, Lindbergh times, magnetic theory, and a whole bunch of science you might read up on. In effect you have been gifted with an independent, mechanically driven system which provides spark to those two spark plugs per cylinder which motivate your winged craft around.
Think about it. Your electrical system, ie- battery, alternator (generator), voltage regulator, they drive your starter, lights, radio, flaps (maybe), and a few other odds and ends you don't really need to get from A to B if you are able or wanting to aviate 1920's style.
Like a coupled GPS, or glass cockpit. Don't rely on those little electron driven bastards, okay? For too long anyway if your alternator fails.
Your magnetos, and the wires they run to their associated spark plugs, run your cylinders, your lifeblood over stormy Kansas or North Atlantic waters Charlie L. style.
Which would you rather fail? Alternator, Generator, or magnetos?
Good first flight magneto checks on run ups will save you much heartache. They do fail. They do go out of time. Spark plugs take a dive. FIX IT. OR GET IT FIXED BEFORE YOU VENTURE OUT.
Again, magnetos- physical- think of somebody's grampaw driving a tractor- did he need a radio, nav system, or even an electrical starter? Nope. Old school tractors were single magneto sparked. Crank that model A or International Harvester with a bar attached to your arm. Ka-blam! Alright, she's runnin'! Now we're plowing. Or driving down the new road in our buggy.
Magnetos. They spin- like your prop. They are physically geared, attached internally through the engine case to your prop. Your prop keeps turning, your magnetos keep burning. Fuel and air. Gap, timing, spark.
Things not to do- never ever turn a prop with important body parts or valued loved ones in the arc. Even with the switch in the off position. EVEN WITH THE SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION. Remember magnetos are ALWAYS hot unless they are properly grounded. Do you know if they are properly grounded? No.
Never pose for photos with your hand on the prop. Learn about impulse couplings and ground leads. Teach your students, passengers, and yourself about the following thing. NEVER EVER TURN A PROP WITH SOMETHING IMPORTANT IN ITS ARC EVEN WITH THE IGNITION SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION!
Ugh, I'm done, consult your local trusted A+P for a tour under the cowling.
Nothing adverse would happen to the aircraft in the situation described in the original post describing the keyed ignition switch being left in the "both" position with the electrical master switch off.
This comes with major caveats described above though.
Important points to take from this thread-
Most (all that I know of besides experimental and certified A/C with electronic ignition systems)(Porsche Mooney?) do not require an alternator or generator driven electrical system independent of magnetos to provide spark to their ignition systems. In other words- all tin cans you are gonna strap on run their spark for ignition from magnetos. Old school. Mechanical. They spin, and provide spark. Many reasons for this going back to early days, Lindbergh times, magnetic theory, and a whole bunch of science you might read up on. In effect you have been gifted with an independent, mechanically driven system which provides spark to those two spark plugs per cylinder which motivate your winged craft around.
Think about it. Your electrical system, ie- battery, alternator (generator), voltage regulator, they drive your starter, lights, radio, flaps (maybe), and a few other odds and ends you don't really need to get from A to B if you are able or wanting to aviate 1920's style.
Like a coupled GPS, or glass cockpit. Don't rely on those little electron driven bastards, okay? For too long anyway if your alternator fails.
Your magnetos, and the wires they run to their associated spark plugs, run your cylinders, your lifeblood over stormy Kansas or North Atlantic waters Charlie L. style.
Which would you rather fail? Alternator, Generator, or magnetos?
Good first flight magneto checks on run ups will save you much heartache. They do fail. They do go out of time. Spark plugs take a dive. FIX IT. OR GET IT FIXED BEFORE YOU VENTURE OUT.
Again, magnetos- physical- think of somebody's grampaw driving a tractor- did he need a radio, nav system, or even an electrical starter? Nope. Old school tractors were single magneto sparked. Crank that model A or International Harvester with a bar attached to your arm. Ka-blam! Alright, she's runnin'! Now we're plowing. Or driving down the new road in our buggy.
Magnetos. They spin- like your prop. They are physically geared, attached internally through the engine case to your prop. Your prop keeps turning, your magnetos keep burning. Fuel and air. Gap, timing, spark.
Things not to do- never ever turn a prop with important body parts or valued loved ones in the arc. Even with the switch in the off position. EVEN WITH THE SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION. Remember magnetos are ALWAYS hot unless they are properly grounded. Do you know if they are properly grounded? No.
Never pose for photos with your hand on the prop. Learn about impulse couplings and ground leads. Teach your students, passengers, and yourself about the following thing. NEVER EVER TURN A PROP WITH SOMETHING IMPORTANT IN ITS ARC EVEN WITH THE IGNITION SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION!
Ugh, I'm done, consult your local trusted A+P for a tour under the cowling.
Last edited by Kilgore Trout; 05-18-2010 at 10:32 PM.
05-18-2010, 10:28 PM
#6
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout
Earlier posters have it correct.
Nothing adverse would happen to the aircraft in the situation described in the original post describing the keyed ignition switch being left in the "both" position with the electrical master switch off.
This comes with major caveats described above though.
Important points to take from this thread-
Most (all that I know of besides experimental and certified A/C with electronic ignition systems)(Porsche Mooney?) do not require an alternator or generator driven electrical system independent of magnetos to provide spark to their ignition systems. In other words- all tin cans you are gonna strap on run their spark for ignition from magnetos. Old school. Mechanical. They spin, and provide spark. Many reasons for this going back to early days, Lindbergh times, magnetic theory, and a whole bunch of science you might read up on. In effect you have been gifted with an independent, mechanically driven system which provides spark to those two spark plugs per cylinder which motivate your winged craft around.
Think about it. Your electrical system, ie- battery, alternator (generator), voltage regulator, they drive your starter, lights, radio, flaps (maybe), and a few other odds and ends you don't really need to get from A to B if you are able or wanting to aviate 1920's style.
Like a coupled GPS, or glass cockpit. Don't rely on those little electron driven bastards, okay? For too long anyway if your alternator fails.
Your magnetos, and the wires they run to their associated spark plugs, run your cylinders, your lifeblood over stormy Kansas or North Atlantic waters Charlie L. style.
Which would you rather fail? Alternator, Generator, or magnetos?
Good first flight magneto checks on run ups will save you much heartache. They do fail. They do go out of time. Spark plugs take a dive. FIX IT. OR GET IT FIXED BEFORE YOU VENTURE OUT.
Again, magnetos- physical- think of somebody's grampaw driving a tractor- did he need a radio, nav system, or even an electrical starter? Nope. Old school tractors were single magneto sparked. Crank that model A or International Harvester with a bar. Now we're plowing.
Magnetos. They spin- like your prop. They are physically geared, attached internally through the engine case to your prop. Your prop keeps turning, your magnetos keep burning. Fuel and air. Gap, timing, spark.
Things not to do- never ever turn a prop with important body parts or valued loved ones in the arc. Even with the switch in the off position. EVEN WITH THE SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION. Remember magnetos are ALWAYS hot unless they are properly grounded. Do you know if they are properly grounded? No.
Never pose for photos with your hand on the prop. Learn about impulse couplings and ground leads. Teach your students, passengers, and yourself about the following thing. NEVER EVER TURN A PROP WITH SOMETHING IMPORTANT IN ITS ARC EVEN WITH THE IGNITION SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION!
Ugh, I'm done, consult your local trusted A+P for a tour under the cowling.
Nothing adverse would happen to the aircraft in the situation described in the original post describing the keyed ignition switch being left in the "both" position with the electrical master switch off.
This comes with major caveats described above though.
Important points to take from this thread-
Most (all that I know of besides experimental and certified A/C with electronic ignition systems)(Porsche Mooney?) do not require an alternator or generator driven electrical system independent of magnetos to provide spark to their ignition systems. In other words- all tin cans you are gonna strap on run their spark for ignition from magnetos. Old school. Mechanical. They spin, and provide spark. Many reasons for this going back to early days, Lindbergh times, magnetic theory, and a whole bunch of science you might read up on. In effect you have been gifted with an independent, mechanically driven system which provides spark to those two spark plugs per cylinder which motivate your winged craft around.
Think about it. Your electrical system, ie- battery, alternator (generator), voltage regulator, they drive your starter, lights, radio, flaps (maybe), and a few other odds and ends you don't really need to get from A to B if you are able or wanting to aviate 1920's style.
Like a coupled GPS, or glass cockpit. Don't rely on those little electron driven bastards, okay? For too long anyway if your alternator fails.
Your magnetos, and the wires they run to their associated spark plugs, run your cylinders, your lifeblood over stormy Kansas or North Atlantic waters Charlie L. style.
Which would you rather fail? Alternator, Generator, or magnetos?
Good first flight magneto checks on run ups will save you much heartache. They do fail. They do go out of time. Spark plugs take a dive. FIX IT. OR GET IT FIXED BEFORE YOU VENTURE OUT.
Again, magnetos- physical- think of somebody's grampaw driving a tractor- did he need a radio, nav system, or even an electrical starter? Nope. Old school tractors were single magneto sparked. Crank that model A or International Harvester with a bar. Now we're plowing.
Magnetos. They spin- like your prop. They are physically geared, attached internally through the engine case to your prop. Your prop keeps turning, your magnetos keep burning. Fuel and air. Gap, timing, spark.
Things not to do- never ever turn a prop with important body parts or valued loved ones in the arc. Even with the switch in the off position. EVEN WITH THE SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION. Remember magnetos are ALWAYS hot unless they are properly grounded. Do you know if they are properly grounded? No.
Never pose for photos with your hand on the prop. Learn about impulse couplings and ground leads. Teach your students, passengers, and yourself about the following thing. NEVER EVER TURN A PROP WITH SOMETHING IMPORTANT IN ITS ARC EVEN WITH THE IGNITION SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION!
Ugh, I'm done, consult your local trusted A+P for a tour under the cowling.
05-19-2010, 04:14 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by EasternATC
When a magneto is switched "off," it is electrically grounded and rendered impotent. When a mag is switched "on," the connection to ground is broken and the mag is now functional.
05-19-2010, 04:40 PM
#9
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
Originally Posted by Slice
You CAN have a bad wire to the mag switch which can cause it to be 'live'. It's best to treat all props like they could be alive at any moment.
Also since the carb bowl still contains fuel, there is absolutely nothing to prevent an engine from running with a broken mag lead. If it's hot and the crank's in the right position, it can start with only a slight bump.
Always, always, always treat a recip prop as a hazard zone.
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