Choosing the right flight academy
 

Hello Aviators,

-Does anyone have any insight on TransPac Aviation Academy (AZ) or ATP (Nationwide)?
-Should I go part 141 or Part 61? Is one looked upon more highly than the other?
-In terms of aviation experience, is training in the desert beneficial or detrimental to my chance of being hired?

Please feel to offer up any and all advice concerning flight training, I'm in the process of choosing between these two flight schools.

Transpac is seemingly reputable, while ATP assures me that they can get me from zero to CFI in 5 months.
Sounds too good to be true.

Please, be kind and offer some guidance.
I wish everyone a safe landing each and every time.

being 'hired' by whom: cfi work, 91 corp, 135, 121?

1-don't get into this career.
2- you can get a cfi ticket in 5 months anywhere not just ATP.
3- 141 has more procedures/stage checks which some companies like. 61 sometimes have things just like 141.
4-desert training won't hinder your hiring chances.
5- go in person and ask students what they think of the training etc.
6- read #1 until you pass out.

The only 'academy' one should attend begins with United States...

Why rush through ratings at twice the price? There are few to no jobs out there right now.

Employers don't care where you got your ratings (unless it was in the military). They just care that you have them, plus whatever flight experience they require.

Don't pick a school because you think airlines will hire their grads...that is BS and I would walk away from any school which tells you their grads are "preferred" by airlines.

Select a school based on safety, reliability, and cost effectiveness. A more expensive school in your hometown might be better if you can live at home and keep your day job

No, nobody cares. I have trained and instructed under both 61 and 141. 61 is usually more cost-effective, since it is far more flexible. 141 can force a student to keep practicing skills he has already mastered because it requires adherence to a rigid syllabus. IMO 141 is usually only beneficial to military veterans using the GI Bill...which requires the use of a 141 program.

Historically, nobody cared except that some employers required a certain amount of instrument time which you will not get in the desert. In the past simulated instrument time was acceptable, but congress appears ready to change the requirements for airline pilots (but not other commercial pilots) to require a certain amount of actual instrument time. Nobody knows exactly when this will take effect, but if I were starting out I might look for location where actual instrument conditions (IMC) are common. Also make sure the school allows students to fly in IMC.

I've never heard of transpac, but ATP is somewhat reputable IMO...they are not crooks, which is saying a lot in the flight training industry.

Also be aware that the airline hiring practices and consequently the flight training industry are likely in for some big changes due to congress. Nobody knows for sure what the final rules will be, however you may have have some new, additional requirements to work in the airline world...

- 800-1500 hours total time. Most flight training programs provide less than 300 hours.

- Significant time in actual icing and IMC conditions. Trainers CANNOT fly into icing conditions, you will need larger, more complex, and powerful airplanes for that. This means effectively that you will have to work for a charter, freight, corporate, or private owner. You cannot qualify for or get insured for those jobs without at least 1000-1200 hours so you will need to work as a CFI for 1-3 years first.

- Significant Multi-engine time, possibly several hundred hours. This could be acquired as an MEI, or flying advanced airplanes (see above).

One significant factor to consider when selecting a school is will they hire you as a CFI when you are done? Schools usually prefer to hire their own grads, so if you don't get hired by YOUR school you may have a harder time with other schools who will hire their own folks before you.

Be careful...large puppy mills (like ATP) may have a policy of "hiring" essentially all of their CFI graduates, but there will not be enough work to go around and you only get paid when you work. You might fly once a month, which will get you nowhere fast career-wise.

A smaller school which teaches a lot of recreational students may be better because there will be fewer career pilots competing for the CFI jobs.

You have a lot of homework to do, search these forums for old posts and keep asking questions.

Just a quick thing to offer to rickairs excellent advice in his post.

Most CFI's I have talked with, including myself, would prefer to NOT teach at an FBO. Couple reasons.

I prefer teaching career orientated pilots because they are much more motivated and self driven than "weekend hobby pilots." They are more likely to study on their own, pay attention to you and be more engaged. Scheduling is also better because they will be coming out more often and willing to adjust their schedule.

Part 61 teaching with weekend pilots is a different world. You tend to teach people who are doing this "on the side" are not always as motivated. They don't see doing homework or assignments as needed. They show up more when they feel like it (regardless of scheduling) and often disappear for weeks on occasion.

I teach at a 141 school associated with a University and I really like certain aspects of it - You are given a set schedule so you know (mostly) what your day/week is like although you will often have to work extra or nights. Also, most of our students are career orientated and are quite motivated. Finally, since it is associated with a University, they care about grades so they have another motivator.

Well, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies. Your responses will be helpful. I think it's safe to say that not too many pilots are happy with the industry at the moment. Moreover, I was reading someone else's questions and posts and I guess the airlines do not hire anyone without a college degree?
On another note, if everyone can name the school or schools they attended for their training, I would really appreciate it. If anyone could recommend a school, I would really love that to. thank you.

www.prairieairservice.com 316-778-1712

I haven't checked the site in a long time but believe the prices haven't been updated. Call them. Great instruction, much cheaper than ATP, and no sales BS. Herb will give you the straight scoop. Worth a phone call at the very least.

I went to Ari Ben Aviator and was happy with it. The multi time that you get there is a HUGE advantage.

If you do not have a degree right now I'd especially recommend them because they just started a 2 year associates degree program where all of your flight training counts towards college credit. A 2 year degree will not be enough for a major airline but you can finish off a bachelors degree online or another university.

Thank you everyone for replying. This decision is tougher than I would have ever imagined.

I do have another concern regarding getting hired after flight training.

I can imagine that any airline willing to hire will conduct a significant background check on their potential employee...

--how detrimental to my chances of being hired are speeding violations ?

I have at least two in the past three years. More than that, I didn't pay them and my license was revoked. All of this will be resolved before I start to flight train. I just want to know how much time will my employer and I spend on this topic during my interview. If I will get one at all after they do a background check on me.

Thank you for your time. All responses are welcomed. Those that bring hopeful news and those that don't:)

Most pilots have a speeding ticket or two in the past. I would estimate that 2 in three years is about the max before they start having doubts. Also it helps if you were very young, and those tickets were in the past. Since you will not be apply to an airline anytime soon, you need to keep a clean record going forward. It's easy, I haven't had a ticket in years although I got at least one a year when I was young and driving navy-funded high-performance sports cars...drive speed limit+5, come to a full stop, don't do crazy lane changes. If you're doing a road trip, your spouse/buddy will complain that you're going too slow...so let them drive. It's much better now that the speed limit is 70+ on the open road.

The revocation is a little more of an issue. That will probably show up on your NDR and you will have to explain it to the FAA when you get a medical. The FAAs only interested in whether it was revoked for dui or refusing a breathalyzer, they will not care about a revocation for admin purposes.

Airlines might consider failure to pay speeding tickets a sign of irresponsibility...hopefully you have a good explanation: moved so the notice got lost in the mail, lost job so couldn't afford it, trying to to appeal it in the court. I would not admit that you just decided not to pay it.

The airlines, FAA, and the TSA all have separate background checks.

The airlines vary from the standard "call a few references" up to a serious check conducted by an outside BI firm. They will also review certain flight training records from the FAA and past employers (PRIA).

The FAA will look at national databases EVERY time you renew your medical. DUI or real crimes will cause problems. Too many speeding tickets (a lot) might cause problems too. The FAA will look at this from the perspective of mental health/stability.

The TSA requires a background check of all airport employees, this covers a very specific list of serious crimes going back ten years. This is pass or fail, no grey area. You can google the list.