flyboyfreye

So of course, the "HR3371" bill didn't TECHNICALLY pass, but the same language passed in this year's FAA Reauthorization bill. It was added in as an amendment.

This article is seriously worth a read. Its incredibly interesting to see what airlines are now saying regarding changes to pilot training requirements. ALPA was sure all for the 1500 and ATP rule, but it looks like the airlines' administration don't like the idea any more than those of us who fervently oppose the idea ourselves.

Airlines oppose law increasing pilot flight hours - WSJ.com

doublerjay

A National Transportation Safety Board investigation concluded the first officer and the flight's captain were probably suffering fatigue at the time of the accident. Neither had slept in a bed the night before — the first officer napped in a cockpit jump seat, the captain in a crew lounge where sleeping was discouraged. Pilots, particularly at regional airlines, often can't afford to live in the communities where they're based. Some share cheap apartments near their base so they can grab sleep before flights. Others simply nap wherever they can.

Really????? Please excuse my ignorance on this subject...but...why are lawmakers and whatnots focusing on a 1500 hour min rule when 'companies' can swallow allowing both crewmembers not to have 8 hours rest in a BED????....wheres the real problem here peeps...... The military doesnt allow that kind of crap....why are airlines allowing it.

USMCFLYR

Where some sleep in the military would make those two places look like the Marriot There are multiple REAL problems to be addressed.

USMCFLYR

rickair7777

We don't? Whose military are you talking about? Not only is it allowed, it is encouraged But we also issue amphetamines in lieu of cappucino if you need a quick pick-me-up...

But of course the number one military priority is mission accomplishment, not personnel safety, and it shows in our accident stats. Airline pilots need adequate rest, since safety is job one (on a not-to-interfere-with-profits basis according to management).

USMCFLYR

I'm sure our mishap rates would be at least a little lower if we didn't practice / do some of the missions that we accomplish either

USMCFLYR

Grumble

I'm sorry, what military experience are you speaking from? If there is one thing we preach above all else, is that unless it's combat, safetly rules above all else. We absolutley don't encourage guys to fly tired or push themselves beyond what they deem safe, and we have firm rest rules as well. Guys risk manage themselves out of flights everything from a baby keeping them up all night, to a minor cold, you name it. There is no X so important to get that we accept unmitigated risk.

Amphetimenes for "pick me ups?" You talking about go-pills? They are rarely used, but an option for air crew in a high optempo combat enviroment, and even then it's strictly controlled by the flight docs and tracked by everyone up to the top chain. We don't just pop them willy nilly like candy. It's also voluntary, only after you've gone through a trial period with some down time from flying. I've taken two in my life, during the trial on the transpac. Never took another one.

Our number one mission is personal safety, and a vast majority of the time we measure success by one yard stick and that's bringing everyone home safely. Outside of combat, mission accomplishment is getting the job done, without hurting anyone. Less than that, and you've failed.

flyboyfreye

Though fatigue is certainly a part of the Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement section of this bill, its not really what the airlines are opposing. They're opposing the fact that if, given a 1500 hour rule, they would be forced into increasing compensation. Why? Because generally speaking, newer pilots are willing to work for less - which is absolutely not to say that there's anything wrong with that. But the fact is that given industry predictions of a pilot shortage rivaling the 2007 levels and this legislation combining to create a "perfect storm," airlines may be forced into parking planes.

Look I hate to be cynical, and I know there's an enourmous faction of this website that totally disagrees with my position on the legislation...we'll see in 3-5 years time. It's sure going to be tough (when our Congress is holding hearings on the possible catastrophe that our nation's air transportation system may be in due to a pilot shortage) to NOT point fingers and say "we told you so."

slipped

That was a joke right?

rdneckpilot

No. It happens but its not like they have them in the vending machine. Google it the military has been using speed since WWII.

rickair7777

20+ (fast headed to 30) years experience, wide variety of mission specialties. I said mission accomplishment comes first, perhaps I should have clarified that safety is the priority in training.

But the point was that airline pilots should not really look to the military model as an example as far as safety vs. mission accomplishment. They are different animals, and the military can and will push the envelope when an operational (vice training) mission requires it.

It doesn't do us airline people any good to adopt a program which emphasizes safety in training but allows exceptions in real world ops. Airline training is done almost entirely in simulators, and 99+% of our ops are real world missions. Management would love unlimited discretion to push the boundaries whenever Wx, Mx, poor planning, etc caused system problems

Go-pills are an amphetamine.