Skyboy

With all due respect to ALL the pilots on this forum. I would try to find another means of asking professional pilots about the career. Many of the participants of this forum have very dissatisfying lives in aviation (myself included). This forum is a place to come talk about the issues of the industry, so for the most part that is what your going to hear about. I'd recommend going out and involving yourself in the industry, and finding out for yourself what it is like... Once again, no disrespect to anyone

Good luck on your journey, whatever you decide

Skyboy,

From the responses that you've gotten you are not doubt getting the impression that there are a lot of airline pilots that hate their lives. There are many reasons for this. The state of the airline industry has changed so much in the nine years since 9/11 that it's essentially become a new game. The rules have changed regarding mandatory retirement age and that had a significant and negative impact on career progression for many pilots that were anticipating seat or equipment upgrades or lifestyle improvements that come with seniority. Security regulations have made going to work to fly the jet a serious pain. Customers are getting nickle and dimed to death and are packed like cattle into uncomfortable and cramped seats and so they're not happy, and if they're not happy they'll make sure nobody's happy.

All that being said, I still love to fly jets for a living. I happen to fly on the cargo side of things, but the jobs are the same once you've strapped on the jet. If your passion is to be an airline pilot, go for it. Stay in school and get that marketing degree, no airline will hire you without a degree, but it doesn't matter what it's in. Read all the responses you get to your question so that no matter what you decide, you'll be making a reasoned and intelligent decision about your future.

Good luck. 'Dog.

Thanks for the response Oldfr8dog - you've enumerated many of my gripes better than I could. It wouldn't be fair to say I hate my life, but as I said - this isn't what I signed up for. I like what I do - I had a really satisfying trip two days ago (that's another story).

On the other hand, I really wonder about many of the people considering getting into this career now. When I started, you would put in 5-15 years of "paying your dues", then you'd be at a major and be set (or as I'd intended, you'd be at a good corporate department - hopefully one that would last, though that was less certain). Now, there is a very real possibility that you will never progress beyond the regionals. Is it worthwhile to incur the debt and years of low wages to top out at 70-80K? Even the guys at the majors have had their retirements stolen through the bankruptcies.

When you're young and single (or don't have kids), it all seems exciting and glamorous. None of us will be young forever, and most won't be single and childless forever. Perspectives change...

I would love to be able to recommend this career to others. I hope things change in the next few years so I can do so again...

Good answer! The rest of these boys are making this out to sound like my fourth marriage...

I'm not a commercial pilot or even an airline pilot, so I have a little different perspective than those guys.

See your education through, hopefully pick up a decent paying desk job, so you can afford flight lessons.

Go to the FBO with the old but hopefully well maintained Cessnas and Pipers.

Avoid the FBOs with the marble floors that cater to the Citations and Gulfstreams of the world.

Get your 1st Class Medical and get your Private over the course of 5-6 months or so.

After you have earned your Private, you should have a much better idea of whether or not you want to do this for a living or just for pleasure.... and of course if you want to do it for a living, time to pony up the money to get your Instrument Rating down. ;)

"If I were you, I would find a way to set aside $6,000 for flight training. That should be about enough for you to get a private pilot license. If you try to pay for it as you go along you'll hit financial road blocks and end up having big gaps between flying time which will make you rusty. It will end up taking longer and being more expensive."

+1.

I'd like to add also that you should avoid getting student loans for flight training as much as possible. Save up as much as you can and use your own cash for flight training. Do it part 61 at your local airport.

Finish your current college degree. The airline LOVE a guy with a degree, no matter what field it's in. Besides, a degree separate from Aviation will give you a back up plan should Aviation jobs not be plentiful and/or you decide to not go through with it.

Gold Standard
 

I really think the gold standard of possessional entry should be to have to work several minimum wage jobs to pay your way through flight training one lesson at a time.

If a person can do all that then they are committed enough. We also would have a lot fewer pilots. ;)

Skyhigh

I agree with this to this extent:

You take out 50k in loans or 30k or what have you. You are now a newly minted 190-250 hour CMEL/CSEL.

You have to pay probably in the neighborhood of 800-1000 a month for your loans and you want to fly. You somehow manage to make it to 500 hours and a regional calls (not today's world but it wasn't long ago)


Your choices are: Stay at your 20k a year job (minimum wage+a little) and get 0 hours since you can't afford to fly any OR you can get a 20k job working at a regional flying with an opportunity to get turbine time in the future.

The choice is clear IF you are a loan taker.


I'm not against taking out loans but the predicament loans leave you in is what I believe to be one of the biggest feeders of bottomfeeders.

Good Point
 

Good point.

Skyhigh

I just want to throw in another perspective since OP is trying to get as much information as possible.

I just want to put a little caution about the "Go to small mom and pop FBO and train there." I did both the Part 61 world and Part 141 world. Now, my 141 school was NOT a "pilot mill" as many of them are. It's a 4 year program that gets you a degree from a state University (can be in Aviation or anything else). At 126 hr/wet (for Archers with instructors) I like to think it is a smart way to go and not get rushed through 0 to hero.

One of the biggest problems I have with the part 61 world is the minimal education. I am NOT saying part 61 instructors are bad or poorly educated, but the quantity of aviation material I learned at my 141 school FAR exceeds what I got when I was part 61. Taking classes SOLELY on systems, learning the intricacies of engines, airframes, etc over a 16 week course. How much time does a part 61 instructor spend on systems? A week? Maybe 2? Also I got to take courses in CRM, advanced jet systems, human factors, and human performance in engineering. The wealth of knowledge I got here I think puts me far ahead of someone who just went to a part 61 school and got their commercial multi. Not only in basic knowledge, but the CRM and Human Factors courses really gave me a new perspective on aviation and how to approach situations. If anything, I think it will help in an interview and during part 121 training. In my advanced systems courses, we spent time on the King Air and EMB 145 - types of airplanes I have a good chance of training on after CFIing. Even if I dont, I at least know how to use things like: setting EPR, ACARS, FMS, bleed air, air conditioning (Packs and Phase change), Jet systems, weather radar - all sorts of stuff that I wouldn't have gotten before. That won't sell me at an interview, I know, but when in training if I already know the basics of how to use weather radar, I'll be at least one step ahead of the game.

Finally, at bigger 141 schools you have a good chance of getting your CFI AND getting a job as an instructor since there usually is a steady flow of students (yes, it does fluctuate). At your local 61 school, even your instructor is probably only working part time, so there is a very slim chance of getting anything. Some people would say CFI parttime while working another job and that may be possible, but even parttime CFI jobs are tricky to come by. Another thing, at my school I get a wide selection of student levels. From Private Pilot, Instrument, Commercial or even CFI. It helps mix things up instead of ALWAYS teaching slow flight, steep turns, stalls. I go from teaching those maneuvers, to instrument approaches, to steep spirals, to fundamentals of instructing. I know some people who teach part 61 for a few years and they say it gets exhausting teaching the same thing day in and day out (although some will say that's all the airlines are and to "get used to it.")

So there is my rant on 61 vs 141. Each has their own merit but I wanted to show that there is positives to part 141 schools. They are not ALL your $50,000 0 to hero to street 90 day programs.