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Flying DME Arc, lose DME, now what?

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Flying DME Arc, lose DME, now what?

Old 01-12-2011, 01:42 PM
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depart the arc and attempt to find runway VFR
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Yeah and fly what heading or direction? I've seen ATC so busy that it could take 1 to 2 minutes to get a word in?
Not if you declare an emergency and squawk 7700 to light up his board, which this definitely is unless you have the sectional charts out (or know the area) and are 100% satisfied that a straight-ahead or dead reckoning climb around the arc to the MSA will keep you from hitting something.

I think it's clear that the question assumes no GPS that can substitute or it wouldn't be asked (although asking "what other equipment do I have on board" would be a good question). Even a handheld GPS would be a lifesaver in this situation.

Out of ATC communication also? Hope you have those sectionals. I would not turn to the VOR for the reasons already stated.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
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The original question was how to respond to the question, if asked. Of course, assumptions like, "the VOR has to be in a lower MSA, so fly over there" are a great way to paint yourself in a corner during the interview.

Don't make it up. If there's not a prescribed procedure in regs, SOP, etc, then use ALL the tools at your disposal. Ask the other crew member. Ask ATC. If no obvious answer is immediately apparent, I'd say CLIMB and get to the missed approach (assuming you are below the MA altitude). Obviously, any missed will require specifics from the approach to determine how to do that. Maybe there is a NOTATION on the chart just for the possibility of loss on a navaid signal.

If asked the question, methodically think it through if you don't know the answer. Guessing, assuming... bad plan.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by satpak77 View Post
depart the arc and attempt to find runway VFR
Sure hoping you forgot the sarcasm smiley!
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by satpak77 View Post
depart the arc and attempt to find runway VFR
With that answer, what does the interviewer ask next? "What would you do now that the weather just went to mins?"
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by detpilot View Post
Sure hoping you forgot the sarcasm smiley!
If the field is VMC, and you have it in sight in VMC, sure, visual is not a bad choice. I suspect the interviewer won't make it that simple.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:28 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by NoyGonnaDoIt View Post
Not if you declare an emergency and squawk 7700 to light up his board

Not in Helena, Montana, it won't. It may be an emergency, and you may squawk 7700, but unless you have two way radio communication with Helena, and tell them, they probably won't have a clue.


Even a handheld GPS would be a lifesaver in this situation.

I don't recommend your answering being to bring in unapproved electronic devices into the cockpit and then using them for an emergency with no briefing, no company procedures or training, etc.


Out of ATC communication also? Hope you have those sectionals. I would not turn to the VOR for the reasons already stated.

Unless the airline has sectionals specifically for VFR flight, I don't recommend that being your answer.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:51 PM
  #18  
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Ok barring GPS, FMS, VFR reversion, ATC vectors, radar coverage, backup DME units, or VFR sectionals at your disposal it seems all you can do is climb back to MSA as quick as you can. So what heading am I to recommend with that climb? Back to the missed approach hold?
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyWilliams View Post
I don't recommend your answering being to bring in unapproved electronic devices into the cockpit and then using them for an emergency with no briefing, no company procedures or training, etc.
Ah, you're looking for an answer that will satisfy an interviewer in an office on the ground. I'm giving an answer that will save my life.

You already mentioned Helena MT. I'll mention the middle of the Colorado Rockies. You're now postulating a situation with no DME, no radar contact, no ATC communication.

Heck, I'd pull out my smartphone with it's internal GPS and geo-referenced sectional charts and use that if it was my best option. I'd rather be alive without a job than dead with one, so the company can say, "he's dead, but he died in accordance with proper procedures".

The interviewer may not care, but hopefully the pilot does. But if it's all about checking off the right box, I'll defer.
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
Ok barring GPS, FMS, VFR reversion, ATC vectors, radar coverage, backup DME units, or VFR sectionals at your disposal it seems all you can do is climb back to MSA as quick as you can. So what heading am I to recommend with that climb? Back to the missed approach hold?
The problem is that there's no one-size (real) answer. What you do in fact do is going to be based on your equipment (both aircraft and avionics) and the conditions.

The climb to MSA is somewhat obvious but the direction you take is going to be based in large part on the climb performance of your aircraft, the surrounding terrain and the weather conditions (the VFR option already mentioned), all of which you, of course briefed.
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