Best way to get CFI
 

Hey guys!

I'm looking into getting my CFI's because I have a couple friends who are interested in taking flying lessons from me and paying!

Unfortunately money is pretty tight as it is with most of us starting out. I was just wondering if any of you have any creative ways to get it? I was planning on doing all the ground courses that I can myself to save costs and preferably stay away from flight schools as they tend to be super expensive... I have looked at ATP though which is tempting, but I believe I can get them much cheaper then that.

I'm also only looking to get my CFI/CFII. I'm planning on waiting to get my MEI until I start to make a little bit of money instructing and have more than just a couple friends wanting to take flight lessons from me.

Thanks for your time!!

Ox

Oh, by the way. I live in Texas (DFW area). If anyone knows of any flight schools that are hiring, or might be hiring if you could let me know. I'm trying to make sure I can make the money I spend on my CFI's back. =)

Thanks

How sure a thing are these *friends* of yours?
If the only reason you are thinking of getting your instructor ratings is to teach them, and then after a few lessons they back out due to financial concerns, are you going to still be interested in finding other work or are you going to be able to pay back any debt that you might incurred during your own training?

You were asking about all instructing opportunities in the DFW area so I am assuming that you would like to get your CFI/CFII whether you had these *friends* to instruct or not - correct?

USMCFLYR

Correct. I've been wanting to do it for quite some time now, I just need to make sure I can get a job after I get them. These friends are a sure thing. The only downfall is since they have full time jobs, they are only able to go flying a few times a month.

So I'm looking to teach them and others once I get my ratings. I love flying and throoughly enjoy helping other people so I think I would also really enjoy instructing. =)

Thanks,

Ox

Any suggestions?

IIRC you only need 3 hours with an instructor to get signed off. There's no way around that so you have to have that much money. My instructor told me to fly with another cfi in training and get teaching on the ground/in air down pat before I went to him. BTW you could do you CFII in the same check ride if I'm not mistaken. I spent bare bones on my CFI/II....good luck.

How much did you spend on both of yours? Eventually I'd like to get my MEI, however I'd like to start instructing before I take that step. Also, are you in this area? (DFW)?

Thanks for the help!

Ox

Have your friends pay for your CFI in exchange for free lessons. Sure beats everyone asking for free lessons once you get your CFi;)

Cheapest way is to study like crazy on your own, and take a few flights right seat to get the maneuvers down. Find a instructor at a FBO that will allow you do the studying on your own, and spend a few hours with you getting you ready for the check-ride. If you prepare by yourself, cost should be pretty cheap.

I know there are some mixed feelings about ATP; however my experience is all good. I got my commercial in a university setting and then went to ATP for my CFI about 2 years ago, and I have nothing but good things to say. I am employed by a university and all I have to say is study on your own and I did about 60 hours of ground training when I was at ATP. You will also learn a lot with you first few students. You can't beat about $5000 (price when I went, not sure about now) for all 3 CFI certificates, but I do agree it can probably be done cheaper.

Alright, I'll keep that in mind thanks!

Just curious if anyone in the DFW area in TX are flying for any flight schools. If you are, are the schools busy/picking up? Do you think them might or are they looking for instructors? I'm trying to figure out if there's a possibility of getting a job with one after I attain my ratings.

Thanks for all of the feedback guys, I really appreciate it!

Ox

As the CFI checkride Oral is about 8-10 hours on the first day, and about 4 hours on the second day, to include the flight of about 2 plus hours, I am not sure how you are going to do your CFI on the cheap.

As an instructor whom teaches CFI students, I can tell you that is just not going to work. There is just too much to chance. And with about an 80 percent failure on the first time through, you just can't cut the training.

You have to be very good at handling all the knowledge, lesson plans, teaching techniques, scenarios (etc..) and you better be on your A game. This is going to be one of the, if not the most difficult checkride you will ever take.

So I can tell you this, Go somewhere to great training and learn what you need to know to be a good teacher of flight. That takes time and money and if you are not able to do that, then please don't. I am not flaming on you, it is just that I do this every day and I know what works and what does not.

And no, you cannot do both your CFI and your II in both days. Two full days for the CFI. And a very long day for the II. And for the II, you better know what you are doing on instruments, let alone being able to multi task the teaching, being ATC, working ATC, and flying all at the same time.

And all initial CFI checkrides are administered by the FAA. Can't use DPE's for the initial. Again good luck to you. But talk to those of us that know and do this every day.

Justin

Can you definite "great training" please? Does this mean that CFI training must be acquired by a seasoned CFI? Please don't misunderstand me, I am only asking because I will be getting my CFI sometime by the end of the year. I was going to get my it ticket at the same local FBO I currently fly out of. I know the CFIs there and they are excellent aviators and work very hard. I was told to start studying for the CFI right now (I am a commercial candidate) and that once I train for the commercial maneuvers, I was told to both speak and perform the maneuvers (like a CFI does) so I can get a first hand feel of what it is like to talk and perform...

Wow, you must have had fun time with that. My CFII initial oral was 3 hours followed by a 1.5 flight. I hear all these horror stories about how bad the checkrides are, but if you show up prepared, they aren't that bad.

And the notion that DPE's don't do initals is wrong. Some FSDO's are so swamped that they have to farm them out to DPE's. They tell you who you are going to get, but they do give them to DPE's.

Thanks for the information guys I really appreciate it. Now I want to research the cost of flight schools vs. getting it done on my own (doing everything I can on my own that is).

Also I want to research the local flight schools in my area that are offering a gaurenteed instructing position on completion. I live in the Texas DFW area. Would any of you know of any schools in my area, or a website that has flight schools listed by area? I know I can search on all of the airports in my area, and call them directly to find out what flight schools each one has at their fbo, but I was hoping there might be a faster way.

Thanks all!

Ox

2 airplanes for checkride?
 

[QUOTE=
And the notion that DPE's don't do initals is wrong. Some FSDO's are so swamped that they have to farm them out to DPE's. They tell you who you are going to get, but they do give them to DPE's.[/QUOTE]
This is also how our FSDO in Allentown, PA operates: DPEs and FAA for initial CFI

I'm also working on my CFI. Has anyone used 2 airplanes for their CFI initial? I'm very confused since some say they did everything in a complex but some have told me that the FAA can't insist that you do everything in a complex since Page 10 of the PTS says "a complex airplane must be furnished for TO&L maneuvers and emergency procedures" Another question I have is do I have to furnish an airplane to demonstrate spins? Again, the PTS is vague. I understand I must demonstrate if I screw up a stall demonstration or if the examiner is not happy with my knowledge of spins. But I understand that, again, it is up to the examiner if he/she wants you to demonstrate even if you give a good explanation of spins and stalls. I have the required spin endorsement.

Using two planes is fine for your CFI initial as you stated from the PTS. If the FSDO throws a fit, show them the PTS.

If the examiner finds deficiencies with stall awareness or spins you are required to demonstrate them on the retest. It is not required on the initial if you are found proficient, however the examiner can still ask you to preform them. Remember though if the examiner touches the controls during a spin because your not proficient you just failed. I would suggest getting proficient at spins and expect to preform them on your checkride. Once your confident preforming them, then there's one less thing to worry about. Plus the're fun:D

Someone told me to check out Skymates (which I am going to) but I was wondering if anyone knew of any other flight schools in the area that might be wroth checking out?

Thanks,

Ox

A lot of people talk about using two airplanes to save money for the CFI ride and commercial. While it may save you a few bucks, is it worth it. Now you have two airplanes to know inside and out for the feds, the feds have two aircraft that the mx guys have to go through to determine airworthiness. Anything that makes the FSDO's life easier makes, your life easier.

Out of the BDL FSDO most CFI checkrides are all-day affairs of 4-5hrs oral with approx a 2hr flight. Not sure which FSDO that other guy was referring to for 8-10 orals and 3hr flights. I don't know any government employee that works that long of a day:p. And a 3hr oral for the CFII??? Use a different DPE and if you aren't using one maybe you should;)

You may have to train more flight hours to ensure the same level of proficiency in both aircraft and don't forget the added taxi, runup, t/o, commute back and forth the practice area, etc. These little things add-up. To me that inconvenience of all that it is worth it to just do it in one airplane.

The checkride is hard enough don't make it any harder than you have to by penny pinching. As stated earlier you do not have to demonstrate spins unless you fail the spin awareness portion. Additionally some complex aircraft like an arrow are NOT approved for spins.

Just my $.02

I can't even find a FSDO inspector on a Monday? The PTS calls for a complex A/C for the takeoff and landing portion, plus the emergency procedures for the CFI initial. How about reinstating a cfi? How about spins, since you can't spin an Arrow, and now C-150's?

Wow, take a moment to breathe....I'll address each issue independently.

Inspectors are available at the discretion of your POI, most FSDOs seem to do CFI initials on Tues or Thurs only. You may need to plan a vacation day from work to this.

You are correct that the Complex a/c is required for t/o & ldgs, and emergency procedures, but I would expect them to throw another item or two your way. Again I still feel doing all in one shot in a complex a/c is the easier route to go. Don't forget the logistics here, you have to fly to the FSDO for the checkride.

Spins are the one thing I would do in a 150, Citabria, etc. for the sole purpose of obtaining the spin endorsement. The rest of the training that you will be tested on I recommend to do in your checkride aircraft.

CFI reinstatement...your choice. Remember reinstatements can be done by any DPE. All it takes is a checkride of any ONE CFI rating to reinstate all of them. Most people will usually do a CFII ride in 172/PA28 type aircraft.

See not so bad:D:p

In my case I received a spin endorsement the first time around, just going to do the reinstatement with a DPE who didn't seem to think we needed a complex airplane.

Usually a best bet. Like I said most people usually will do a CFII reinstatement as many people that let their CFI lapse are corporate, airline, or charter pilots and are flying instruments daily anyways. While I don't know if that's your situation or not, it just seems to be the common trend. Best of luck! :)