Wanting career change at 39-how long to major
02-06-2011, 07:02 AM
#11
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,574
I think the hardest part will be from finishing flight school to getting enough experience to get hired at a regional carrier. There is some legislation in the works to require 1500hrs in order to fly as an FO at a regional carrier. Finishing flight school with 250-300hrs will leave a looong road ahead, with the most realistic option of being a CFI ($20-30k/yr) for 2-3yrs to build that experience.
Then you will get hired at a regional carrier and probably be based across the country, renting a crashpad for $200/mo and making $25k/yr as a first yr RJ FO. RJ FO pay will top out around $40-45k, after anywhere from 2-10yrs as an RJ FO you will upgrade to RJ CA making $65-75k. After 2-3yrs of RJ CA experience you will have 1000hrs of PIC Turbine and be realistically eligible for hiring at a major. First year pay at a major is usually in the $40-50k range, then it quickly goes up and youll surpass $90k in your 2nd or 3rd yr at a major.
Im not sure what your family situation is, but this job is a b*tch in terms of time away from home and/or moving your family all over the country (or world) for the advancement of your career. If you cant get a CFI job in your hometown then what? Will you be willing to relocate across the country to gain some multi engine experience flying as a MEI or maybe a part 135 job paying $20-30k? Then be gone as an RJ FO on reserve in a crashpad for 5-6days at a time with 2 days off?
The payoff used to be worth the investment, $300k/yr working two trips per month flying widebodies all over the world, but now the Major carriers schedules are almost as brutal as Regional carriers schedules and the pay isnt close to the $300k we used to aim for.
I know that everyone has a different career path, but I finished flight school 8yrs ago and am now just upgrading to RJ CA projected to make roughly $65-70k/yr. I would also like to get to the majors eventually, but it could be several years until that happens.
It is a tough decision, but you are doing the right thing by educating yourself before you take the leap.
Then you will get hired at a regional carrier and probably be based across the country, renting a crashpad for $200/mo and making $25k/yr as a first yr RJ FO. RJ FO pay will top out around $40-45k, after anywhere from 2-10yrs as an RJ FO you will upgrade to RJ CA making $65-75k. After 2-3yrs of RJ CA experience you will have 1000hrs of PIC Turbine and be realistically eligible for hiring at a major. First year pay at a major is usually in the $40-50k range, then it quickly goes up and youll surpass $90k in your 2nd or 3rd yr at a major.
Im not sure what your family situation is, but this job is a b*tch in terms of time away from home and/or moving your family all over the country (or world) for the advancement of your career. If you cant get a CFI job in your hometown then what? Will you be willing to relocate across the country to gain some multi engine experience flying as a MEI or maybe a part 135 job paying $20-30k? Then be gone as an RJ FO on reserve in a crashpad for 5-6days at a time with 2 days off?
The payoff used to be worth the investment, $300k/yr working two trips per month flying widebodies all over the world, but now the Major carriers schedules are almost as brutal as Regional carriers schedules and the pay isnt close to the $300k we used to aim for.
I know that everyone has a different career path, but I finished flight school 8yrs ago and am now just upgrading to RJ CA projected to make roughly $65-70k/yr. I would also like to get to the majors eventually, but it could be several years until that happens.
It is a tough decision, but you are doing the right thing by educating yourself before you take the leap.
02-06-2011, 07:43 AM
#12
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 4
Wow, some good stuff here, I think. Seems the general opinion of making a decent standard of living isn't very good. Just to clarify, I am not focused on 90K, my wife is a nurse and has a great job making about the same. I would easily be happy making 20K less than I do now to get out of consulting. We work a lot of long hours in this industry too and it is very unpredictable. I am currently out of town on two 10 day work cycles at the Opa-Locka Airport. So we are use to me being away from home too. Plus with consulting the saying is your a master of all but an expert at nothing. I guess nothing is perfect.
Oh, not sure if this helps or not but I live in Charlotte, NC which is a US Air Hub. I would think the CLT area has decent prospects for regionals too.
Oh, not sure if this helps or not but I live in Charlotte, NC which is a US Air Hub. I would think the CLT area has decent prospects for regionals too.
02-06-2011, 08:30 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 207
Answer...HELL NO!! Take the $150K and buy yourself a nice little plane and fly yourself around for the fun of it. I'm 41, been layed off twice in the past 11 years from one major airline and a second large 135 company. I'm busted, broke and trying to rebuild my life again at this age. While I love flying I can tell you to this day it has not been worth all the hardships.
02-06-2011, 09:34 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: RJ Captain
Posts: 1,174
I'd say if you gave up the 90K job today, spent 50K on training, instructed for two years, and then spent three as a regional FO, you'd be giving up over $400k in income and savings over the next five years. Thats assuming you make $25K a year instructing and first year at a regional. $35K a year your second and third year at a regional. You could make significantly less! Or possibly more.
$400K is a lot of money. Are you OK with it? What about your wife?
Lets say in five years that you're an RJ captain. 3 years of that at 70K. Thats another 60K you gave up. The you get hired at a major, average of 60K over the first two years, another 60K down. So in the next ten years you could be giving up over 500K, and thats assuming your consulting income stays flat.
Take my opinion for whats worth though, nothing. I'm a little jaded. I went into the Army out of high school, and didn't make it to the airlines until my early thirties. More than a decade later I haven't hit a six figure income. I would have been making more if I had stayed in the military(presuming I'd been promoted) - AS AN ENLISTED GUY - than I do as an RJ captain.
$400K is a lot of money. Are you OK with it? What about your wife?
Lets say in five years that you're an RJ captain. 3 years of that at 70K. Thats another 60K you gave up. The you get hired at a major, average of 60K over the first two years, another 60K down. So in the next ten years you could be giving up over 500K, and thats assuming your consulting income stays flat.
Take my opinion for whats worth though, nothing. I'm a little jaded. I went into the Army out of high school, and didn't make it to the airlines until my early thirties. More than a decade later I haven't hit a six figure income. I would have been making more if I had stayed in the military(presuming I'd been promoted) - AS AN ENLISTED GUY - than I do as an RJ captain.
02-06-2011, 04:12 PM
#15
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by panzer948
Wow, some good stuff here, I think. Seems the general opinion of making a decent standard of living isn't very good. Just to clarify, I am not focused on 90K, my wife is a nurse and has a great job making about the same. I would easily be happy making 20K less than I do now to get out of consulting. We work a lot of long hours in this industry too and it is very unpredictable. I am currently out of town on two 10 day work cycles at the Opa-Locka Airport. So we are use to me being away from home too. Plus with consulting the saying is your a master of all but an expert at nothing. I guess nothing is perfect.
Oh, not sure if this helps or not but I live in Charlotte, NC which is a US Air Hub. I would think the CLT area has decent prospects for regionals too.
Oh, not sure if this helps or not but I live in Charlotte, NC which is a US Air Hub. I would think the CLT area has decent prospects for regionals too.
So, your business has you traveling a lot. I'm guessing you are self employed and pay for your own travel... ?
Here is a crazy idea: buy an airplane (172, Cherokee, or similar), get your private and instrument, then use it to commute to some of these jobs. You would be building your time, and having your business pay for the trip (or at least be able to write off some of it, talk to your account about that). It will probably take you longer to build your hours than just dumping $150k, but it will be MUCH cheaper and you will still be EARNING money along they way.
About making it to the majors, everyone else has made great points. Listen to them.
What hasn't been mentioned is the medical certification. Can you pass one now? Have you actually gone to an AME and said, "I want to check me out just like you would if I were getting a first class medical." There is no point in starting this crazy endeavor if a medical is beyond your reach.
While you could get hired at a major in your late forties, the thought of going back to sitting reserve may not be so attractive. I'm 46, live in base, can hold lines I like. I would need to AT LEAST double my salary to make me commute, go back to the right seat, and sit reserve. I will get to around $90k entering my TENTH year (if the TA passes, if the company can keep it's contracts, if oil doesn't go through the roof, and if the river don't rise).
02-06-2011, 07:57 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed
As mentioned earlier, their is a lot of stagnation at the regionals.
Good luck
Good luck
02-07-2011, 06:08 AM
#17
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,185
Originally Posted by Zoso
Not in a million years. This is not the gig it used to be.
You will blow that $150k you have in the bank. It will be gone in a couple years while you get your ratings and build your time. You will make poverty wages, be away from home a lot, and treated like crap for the first few years. It's easily possible that you will never make close to $90k a year again depending on things out of your control.
You will be broke, away from home in a cheap crashpad, your wife will not be used to the lifestyle and your marriage will suffer. You'll fight with her when you're home on days off because you'll be stressed about commuting to work.
Next thing you know, you're sleeping in a van in the airport parking lot to save on the crashpad money. You'll eat bad airport food and get fat. You'll get drunk and bang some nasty flight attendant on New Years Eve in the Ramada Inn in Albany, because your wife is mad at you for missing another holiday.
That flight attendant will call your wife because she's knocked up. Your wife will leave you and take what little money you have and then you'll have to send her half of your measly paycheck for alimony.
You'll try to talk the nasty flight attendant into getting an abortion because you can't afford the child support, and the next thing you know, your arms and legs are tied down while you're drowning in a waterbed that has been sliced up the middle with a knife. All your fingertips have also been sliced with a razor blade to prevent you from working the knots on the ropes loose.
There you will slowly drown in a mixture of moldy waterbed water and your own blood. Which is probably better, because your airline will most likely have cut the hard lines again in your base and you're looking at another year commuting on reserve.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
You will blow that $150k you have in the bank. It will be gone in a couple years while you get your ratings and build your time. You will make poverty wages, be away from home a lot, and treated like crap for the first few years. It's easily possible that you will never make close to $90k a year again depending on things out of your control.
You will be broke, away from home in a cheap crashpad, your wife will not be used to the lifestyle and your marriage will suffer. You'll fight with her when you're home on days off because you'll be stressed about commuting to work.
Next thing you know, you're sleeping in a van in the airport parking lot to save on the crashpad money. You'll eat bad airport food and get fat. You'll get drunk and bang some nasty flight attendant on New Years Eve in the Ramada Inn in Albany, because your wife is mad at you for missing another holiday.
That flight attendant will call your wife because she's knocked up. Your wife will leave you and take what little money you have and then you'll have to send her half of your measly paycheck for alimony.
You'll try to talk the nasty flight attendant into getting an abortion because you can't afford the child support, and the next thing you know, your arms and legs are tied down while you're drowning in a waterbed that has been sliced up the middle with a knife. All your fingertips have also been sliced with a razor blade to prevent you from working the knots on the ropes loose.
There you will slowly drown in a mixture of moldy waterbed water and your own blood. Which is probably better, because your airline will most likely have cut the hard lines again in your base and you're looking at another year commuting on reserve.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
02-07-2011, 08:21 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Originally Posted by Utah
I'd say if you gave up the 90K job today, spent 50K on training, instructed for two years, and then spent three as a regional FO, you'd be giving up over $400k in income and savings over the next five years.
$400K is a lot of money. Are you OK with it? What about your wife? .
$400K is a lot of money. Are you OK with it? What about your wife? .
It's amazing that this is even being considered, to be honest. Financially, it's a loser.
If money means little to you, then the airline pilot biz is probably for you.
02-07-2011, 12:24 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: DL
Posts: 154
Originally Posted by panzer948
I hope this is the right forum for this topic but seeing as how my ultimate goal would be a pilot for one of the majors I thought it was worth trying here. I just discovered this forum yesterday so I am just in the beginning stages of my research. I really want to determine if at 39 years young 
is it plausible to quite my current consulting technical field and use the money I have saved up to attend a flight school.
Due to my age, military is not an option so the civilian route is the way to go for me. I have always thought about becoming a pilot and actually attempted to get my private pilot's license part time about 10 years ago. I didn't finish for financial reasons. However, I now have about 150K in savings that I could use to support myself and pay for a full time flight school. Also, it seems the job outlook maybe turning around by the time I would be through with school. I already have a BS degree in the Earth Sciences/Geology and have worked for the same firm for 17 years.
So how long will it take till I can make a decent living doing a career that I love and will my age work against me during the interview process?
Thanks for any insight!
is it plausible to quite my current consulting technical field and use the money I have saved up to attend a flight school. Due to my age, military is not an option so the civilian route is the way to go for me. I have always thought about becoming a pilot and actually attempted to get my private pilot's license part time about 10 years ago. I didn't finish for financial reasons. However, I now have about 150K in savings that I could use to support myself and pay for a full time flight school. Also, it seems the job outlook maybe turning around by the time I would be through with school. I already have a BS degree in the Earth Sciences/Geology and have worked for the same firm for 17 years.
So how long will it take till I can make a decent living doing a career that I love and will my age work against me during the interview process?
Thanks for any insight!
I wouldn't worry about your age one bit. That is the least of your worries. I, like many have said, would recommend a local FBO to get your ratings and possibly buy a share in an airplane. This could save you a ton of money. Go do an intro flight at your local airport and if you are hooked, go get a first class medical.
How long until you make a decent living? No one can tell you that. There are way too many variables. It took me 10 years to get to a major and finally make somewhat decent money.
You never know if you don't try. Good luck.
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