panzer948

I hope this is the right forum for this topic but seeing as how my ultimate goal would be a pilot for one of the majors I thought it was worth trying here. I just discovered this forum yesterday so I am just in the beginning stages of my research. I really want to determine if at 39 years young is it plausible to quite my current consulting technical field and use the money I have saved up to attend a flight school.

Due to my age, military is not an option so the civilian route is the way to go for me. I have always thought about becoming a pilot and actually attempted to get my private pilot's license part time about 10 years ago. I didn't finish for financial reasons. However, I now have about 150K in savings that I could use to support myself and pay for a full time flight school. Also, it seems the job outlook maybe turning around by the time I would be through with school. I already have a BS degree in the Earth Sciences/Geology and have worked for the same firm for 17 years.

So how long will it take till I can make a decent living doing a career that I love and will my age work against me during the interview process?

Thanks for any insight!

iaflyer

Welcome aboard - it's a tough industry these days - any growth seems to be happening in non-traditional places (overseas carriers, low cost operators in the US [Allegiant, Spirit]) while the traditional routes to a career (regionals and majors) are in a slow/no growth mode right now. Of course, it can change, and there are plenty of fun, well paying jobs that don't fly passengers (cargo).

Your age will be no factor, I know a guy who was about that age, a District Attorney who always wanted to fly. He quit, got his rating and was making his way up the aviation career ladder.

One thing you should really look at is what do you want out of aviation? Are you just bored? Do you like to travel? Do you want a better paying job? Do you value job stability?

Aviation is a lot different that the view from the movies from years past. Now you're coming in with a fresh view, so pay cuts, age 65 and all that is behind you. In front is a clean slate. Let us know what you want from the job and people here will line up to tell you how it is.

Ottopilot

You're going to get all kinds of answers, so don't believe everything you read. You can do it, but it's not easy. I started flying at age 15 and got hired at a major airline at 39 with 10,000 hours and a Master's degree. I still have no money or savings. I lost my captain position and with the current merger, I may even lose my job. The pay is about 6X less than it was in the '70's (when you factor in inflation and cost of living).

I've also seen guys fall into a great job at age 23 and they're doing fine. I'd recommend keeping your job, getting your flying certificates and ratings on the side. See how much you like it. You will learn a lot about the industry on the way.

Good luck.

panzer948

Hi, thanks for quick response. I guess I figured majors was where the decent salaries were. I have no preference over cargo or passengers and yes I do love to travel. However, I am not looking to aviation for the money, really just a decent salary like I already have so that I can enjoy a similar standard of living. I currently make around $90K. If I eventually made more than that in aviation than that is great. But I also know for some time I will make a lot less than that. I think the deciding factor (again due to my age) is how long will I make substantially less than 90K after I completed a fast track through aviation school.

It's great to hear age isn't an issue!

Homa

My short answer would be "Don't do it!" But, that's just me. Ottopilot & iaflyer have good advice. Get your ratings on the side and see how you like it. If I had 150k saved up, I'd invest it differently than to pay for all your ratings. But, each of us is different.

rickair7777

This question has been addressed before, here are some links:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fl...reer-read.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fl...-training.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...m-pilot-5.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fl...years-old.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fl...ame-thing.html


Synopsis: Yes, you can do it but there will be a lot of dues paying before you get back to a livable income and a reasonable quality of life. You will probably not be a captain at a major airline, at least with any kind of QOL. Realistically you probably need to plan on being satisfied with regional CA or major FO.

There are a lot of uncertainties. Any timeline you come up with will most likely end up including one industry downturn, which will result in years of furlough, unemployment, or at best stagnation in whatever dues-paying job you hold at the time.

Also there are a few real bogeymen out there which might make the future of commercial aviation look unlike anything we have seen in the best (peak oil, spiraling oil prices, rampant environmentalism). It's possible that there will be a lot of hiring due to retirements, but only if oil prices remain relatively low...you sound like a sharp guy, make your own analysis of that. Unfortunately while alternative jet fuels exist, the airline industry is far too shortsighted (or cheap) to actually implement anything pro-actively. They will wait until half the airliners are parked in the desert, all major airlines are on the verge of liquidation, and then look to the gub'mint to do something. For career planning purposes it's not a matter of if, but when...you can guesstimate that as well as anyone.

usmc-sgt

It is nearly impossible to predict.

Safe estimate (using current industry) is that you would likely CFI until you hit 1000+ hours. That could take realistically close to 2 years. After that if you got on with a regional it could take give or take 3-4 years to get to the left seat. Once you got to the left seat it could take a few years to hit 90K. You may not make it to 90K at the regional before getting on with a major...then you start over. At a major it could be 3-5 years before you hit 90K and then depends on which major you worked at. None of this factors in getting furloughed which starts the clock all over again.

Basic math under this relatively best case scenario is that it would take 10-12 years going the major route. If you stayed regional it may end up closer to 8-10. A regional is no place to spend a lifetime since current markets show that most will not exist in the same form that you were hired into in 20 years.

I hit the timing pretty well and it will be around 8-9 years before I get to 90K. I will come close years 6-8 but that is not looking at minimum guarantee, it is looking at what I actually credit.

These are far from perfect numbers but I think most here will not argue that these are realistic +-2 years on either end. Some have been at it professionally for 15+ years and are not at 90K yet while my cousin left the military after 6 years straight into Southwest and was at 90 in a little over a year.

DAL 88 Driver

If you're making $90k now in your present job and the outlook is that you will continue to make $90k or better into the future, then you will be making a HUGE financial sacrifice to give that up and pursue flying. The impact of that decision could have devastating consequences down the road when you retire.

As far as the flying goes... Yeah, I've been doing this for a really long time and still absolutely love it! Unfortunately, the career is currently worth about HALF of what it traditionally has been worth. And the unpredictability/instability of it is about as bad as anything can be. I changed careers to get into this (I was in my late 20's at the time). As much as I loved flying (and still do!), had I known how little it was going to end up paying and what a stressful rollercoaster ride it would be for my family, there is no way I could have justified making the change.

Good luck in your decision.

NuGuy

Heyas Panzer,

Phew, how many years at less than 90k? That COULD be forever, depending on which major you go to or what job you wind up in.

It's a long road, especially going the civilian route.

In the past, a typical civilian career track went like this (with pay):

Training (6-9 months): Zero money
Instructing (1-4 years): 16-22k a year, although some instructing jobs pay a bit more

Here the tracks diverged:

You could go haul checks for a couple of years to get your multi time up, and that actually paid pretty well, and you mostly had weekends off. Pay was ok...around 35-45k. This career track has been REALLY reduced due to changes in the banking laws allowing scanned checks versus the real ones.

Or you could go to a regional. Here it varies, but pretty universally the pay & quality of life (QoL) is always sub-par. Plan on reserve for at least 6 months, and no holidays or weekends for the better part of 2 years. Probably 20-22k to start, inching up to 45-60k when you upgrade, but it can be a real crapshoot as to when that occurs. Today's "2 year upgrade" only pertains to the people actually upgrading, and by the time you get there, it could be 12 years.

You can make 90k at the regionals, but that's a 20 year gig to get there, and you are going to suffer some pretty bad QoL in the process.

As to getting to the majors...that's the real gamble, and even once there, there is no guarantee if you will keep what was offered. MANY guys got on at a major with the expectation of making 100k in year three, paid health insurance and a fully funded pension, only to see all of that disappear a few years later.

Don't forget frieght...FedEx and UPS have probably the best contracts left in the industry. SWA is good on pay rates, but pay attention to see if the lifestyle is what you want. But there are lottery type odds to get there, but you can't win if you don't play.

But assuming the status quo, you'd still be looking at 3-4 years at sub-90k levels, and even that might be extended.

Add it all up, and if everything runs right, you are probably looking at a 6-8 year deal to get to the majors at a minimum, most of that time making significantly less that 50k. Another 2-3 years to break the 90k mark.

But don't forget Corporate. Many older guys fit into the corporate mold really well, and enjoy the lifestyle, and pay can be really pretty good, depending on the operator. Corporate is a whole different show than the airline route, and requires a different way to get to the decent gigs (you have to network BIG time), but it is very doable.

I'm with DAL. You have to look at not only spending the 50k for training (an absurd sum, BTW), but the loss of income during the transition. That is a HUGE amount of money, and don't forget you aren't saving for retirement during this time, either.

For $150k, I'd consider going to professional school. Med school or law school if you can swing the grades. A 3 year program at the local U for law makes you fairly bankable, especially with 2nd career background (oil & gas law, maybe?).

Nu

Tumbleweed

Rather than to waste that savings on a rip-off, "fast-track" flight school, you might consider getting a private at a small FBO, buy into a flying club or even consider going in on a used plane with another investor to bring the hourly rates down. The nice thing about airplanes is that, although they are expensive, if you maintain them they will loose very little value. A friend of mine paid 10k to buy a 1/4th of a used Piper Cherokee and the hourly rate is just under $40!
I just got hired at a major, it took 8 years (including training/instructing) to get this far and it will take another two years to achieve the income you are currently holding. Along the way A LOT of my colleagues have not been as fortunate. As mentioned earlier, their is a lot of stagnation at the regionals.
It is important to think about which direction you go in this industry, however, unlike a lot of other fields, most of it boils down to good timing and dumb luck. Once you're at work and your doing your thing, most guys will agree that this is a great job. But there are a lot of loops to jump through and a lot of completely, unacceptable practices going on (mostly at the regionals).
Good luck