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jsfBoat 03-16-2011 02:22 PM

Multi Single Engine Approach
 
I'm having problems flying single engine approaches for my Multi certificate. I was wondering if someone could give some tips. I'm flying a BE-76 and this is a big struggle for me. It's hard getting everything stabilized, especially on precision approaches.

Grumble 03-16-2011 02:54 PM

Make sure you're feathered (zero thrust set), 1/2 ball deflection, 5 degrees into the good engine, and trim. Go full forward on the good prop you so always have full power available, lead all of your power corrections. If you need to take power off, only take off a little bit and put it right back up. See what that gives you. If you think you need to add power, then add a lot, and bring it back to about half of where you were before. i.e. if you're at 20" MP and need to add power, go to 24-25" until you see a response, then reset at 21-22". If you're at 20" and going high, reduce to 15" for just a second then go right back to 19-20" and see what that gives you.

Remember single engine you're 70-80% degraded... so you need to be 30 seconds ahead on what you think your power requirement is going to be. Come up on the power before dropping the gear, leave the flaps up if needed on the approach, and you can ALMOST never be over powered when single engine. Speed is your friend, it's much harder to get back once you let it go.

Cubdriver 03-16-2011 02:57 PM

Put a half a ball width on the slip skid indicator with up to 5 degrees bank toward the running engine for straight flight, and then trim it to hold that ball position using the rudder trim. This should be part of your engine out procedure every time.

Things get tricky in the turn. When you turn, resist the temptation to use the typical inside of turn rudder that we normally use to counter adverse yaw. Just turn the airplane with the ailerons almost exclusively. Scan the slip skid often and adjust rudder accordingly. You will get better at doing this as you learn the feel of it rather than having to use the slip-skid to know what to do.

Worst case is going to be a base to final turn with the good running engine on the inside of the turn, maybe in crosswinds and when you already overshot final due to crosswinds. This is a very dangerous situation! It typically occurs in IFR on a circle to land approach where the running engine is on the inside of the turn. You must keep the ball more or less coordinated through the turn. This means the only way to turn the airplane without reducing power on the running engine, something you should never do, is bank fairly steeply instead.

It is a bit hard breaking the old habit of kicking rudder in the inside of a turn when it wants to fly through final. Banking fairly aggressively with ailerons in this situation particularly if you have a strong crosswind on the running side causing you to overshoot final is the proper way to correct.

The issue with light twins is they cannot do go-arounds on one engine due to poor climb performance on one engine. Go-arounds on one engine are more or less a death sentence. Even if it climbs a little, the rate is so poor you will hit something before returning to the airport. You simply have no choice but to bank rather hard if you want to get on final.

The reason it is best not recommended to steer the airplane by reducing power on the running engine is how much it sends the airplane into an uncontrolled yaw. You generally want to make small power adjustments and steering with the throttle is too risky. Bring the power down in small increments as a rule of thumb.

[edit] Mr. Grumble typed faster then me by about two minutes.

Cubdriver 03-16-2011 03:18 PM

On precision approaches 20-21" will almost always give the right ground speed in this airplane on an ILS except in strong headwinds. In the latter case use full throttle on the running engine. In either situation I would discourage against making throttle adjustments more than 1 inch either way. More than that and you have trouble keeping the ball coordinated properly. There is no way to fly well without already knowing the settings you are using to a fairly narrow range in such a touchy condition.

clipperskipper 03-16-2011 03:37 PM

I wrote and published a training manual for this aircraft some years ago. This was simply due to the fact that Beech didn't have one available, and I had a mob of new multi engine students Thanks to the GI bill.

Trim the rudder for 1/2-2/3 ball then you won't need to muscle the aircraft so much. Once you begin your decent on the glide path you can make small corrections using the rudder in order to keep your localizer needle dead nuts. Don't forget as you begin reducing power on the operative engine, the airplane is going to want to straighten back out.

Cubdriver 03-16-2011 04:06 PM

That's a good point. When you get to the flare and reduce power on the running engine to land, you can easily fly off the side of the runway if you do it too quickly. You are forgetting how much rudder trim there was. But if you flew the ILS all the way down to the flare, which is what you should be doing for PTS purposes anyway, then you will have plenty of runway left to use to ease out the power gradually and make a smooth counter with opposite rudder.

bcaviator 03-16-2011 04:37 PM

I just want to tell you both, good luck. We're all counting on you

Cubdriver 03-16-2011 04:47 PM

I am confident we will all make it if we try as well. But you never know in this economy.

clipperskipper 03-16-2011 04:49 PM

It's a different kind of flying, altogether.

Cubdriver 03-16-2011 04:58 PM

Kind of like flying blind really. Are we still talking about airplanes?

AbortAbortAbort 03-16-2011 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 965348)
The issue with light twins is they cannot do go-arounds on one engine due to poor climb performance on one engine. Go-arounds on one engine are more or less a death sentence.

I did my initial multi in a C-310 and always enjoyed the security of having a decent second engine - and it paid off. During a later instructing flight with a student the same 310 developed an oil leak and we did a precautionary shutdown as the temps rose. Didn't even worry about bringing it in single engine because I knew that in a 310 you always had the option of going around.

But of course, then you get into the same problem a lot of guys have in initial type ratings in planes that can easily climb on one engine...they give go-around thrust/power and don't adequately control the yaw which can easily be just as or more dangerous than trying the landing.

WalkOfShame 03-16-2011 09:13 PM

Itsadifferentkindofflying ;)

Gajre539 03-26-2011 07:55 AM

This may not apply to your airplane, but...when I was doing single engine approaches in our Piper Seneca I, the airplane was wobbling all over the place (meaning past 1/4 scale deflection on the ILS as per ATP standards). I added 10 deg. of flaps at the FAF on one of the ILSs and the airplane stabilized, now I train students with flaps 10 on SE approaches.

X Rated 03-26-2011 08:46 AM

Too many times guys will be back and forth on the power. This destablizes the aircraft. Set the power once...maybe tweak it later...and then leave it alone until landing. Just fly....

X

Cubdriver 03-26-2011 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by X Rated (Post 970897)
Too many times guys will be back and forth on the power. This destablizes the aircraft. Set the power once...maybe tweak it later...and then leave it alone until landing...

Yes, this is what I also hold to be the most relevant thing about throttle management on engine-out approaches. "Set it and forget it"- you should know what power setting you need already. Little or no jockeying should be taking place on approach. In the case of a well-managed throttle, the worst yaw will come on rollout when the good engine is brought back and the strong rudder trim is pulling the other way. At that point you have the time and space to do it smoothly.

mshunter 03-26-2011 02:33 PM

Trim Trim TRIM! Oh, and make sure you trim.

stealth114 03-28-2011 06:52 PM

Who has flown the Seneca II for their multi ?

I started doing my multi add on in the Duchess and loved it.. the aircraft is down for repair just 1 flight before I got the sign off for the check ride.. What now? The school got a turbo charged 230 HP Seneca II to continue my training.. I will get the high performance sign off with that too... Any thoughts ? I LOVED flying the Duchess 76 ...

Grumble 03-29-2011 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by stealth114 (Post 972073)
Who has flown the Seneca II for their multi ?

I started doing my multi add on in the Duchess and loved it.. the aircraft is down for repair just 1 flight before I got the sign off for the check ride.. What now? The school got a turbo charged 230 HP Seneca II to continue my training.. I will get the high performance sign off with that too... Any thoughts ? I LOVED flying the Duchess 76 ...

Wait for the Duchess. You overboost an engine on your check ride and you're likely to get a pink slip. Seneca II isn't hard to fly, but with fixed waste gates it takes a lot more attention.

stealth114 03-29-2011 05:26 PM

Got ya... thanks for the tip... I am 95% ready and was hoping it be 2-3 hours to get settled in the Seneca II...

Hacker15e 03-29-2011 05:57 PM

"Rudder swap" during the power reduction prior to the flare.

PW305 03-29-2011 06:17 PM


Originally Posted by stealth114 (Post 972073)
Who has flown the Seneca II for their multi ?

I started doing my multi add on in the Duchess and loved it.. the aircraft is down for repair just 1 flight before I got the sign off for the check ride.. What now? The school got a turbo charged 230 HP Seneca II to continue my training.. I will get the high performance sign off with that too... Any thoughts ? I LOVED flying the Duchess 76 ...

Probably should stick with the Duchess just for familiarity. The Seneca II is a great transition though between trainers and turbocharged cabin-class twins

doublerjay 03-30-2011 05:33 AM

my two cents....it can be easier said than done...Its all about pitch, trim, power....this is what i taught, single engine aircraft C172, i had the student trim for level flight at 90 KIAS which was about 1900 rpm...Then have the student reduce power to 1700 rpm. the same practice works for multi engine normal ops and single engine work, except you change MP.

practice single engine ops in the practice area first, once your zero thrust is set, and youve trimmed for zero sideslip, once trimmed for level flight you can reduce power and retrim for a constant rate descent

practice making power changes in terms of 1" MP to 2" MP (changes on your operating engine. Set the change and see what happens.

stealth114 03-30-2011 06:27 PM

Im sure it can be done but not just on the 11th hour of my check ride... I want to get the check ride done and then in time , I can worry about the flight characteristics of another twin and getting familiar with it ..

if anyone knows a flight school in FL with a Duchess, please let me know ASAP !

jsfBoat 04-01-2011 05:34 AM

Thanks for all the posts, I finally took my ME checkride and passed, after the first time. I'm now working on the MEI.

N9373M 04-01-2011 06:15 AM


Originally Posted by jsfBoat (Post 973857)
Thanks for all the posts, I finally took my ME checkride and passed, after the first time. I'm now working on the MEI.


Congratulations!

ps Please define geriatrics, so I know where I stand ;)

jsfBoat 04-02-2011 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by N9373M (Post 973879)
Congratulations!

ps Please define geriatrics, so I know where I stand ;)

For a while, most of my Private students where 65+ years old. One day, they were all at the flight school and said proclaimed themselves as the "Geriatric Student Pilot Club".

stealth114 04-11-2011 03:21 PM

Ok everyone.. Flew the Seneca II high turbo today... flew rather well.. Considering only 1.5

A bit tricky on the landing.. sloppy approach and high and fast... but the landing came out well in the end!!

Any advice on M.P. and rpm for cruise, descent and approach to land is appreciated!!

thank you!!


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