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The Cessna Skycatcher was unrecoverable from spins before the aero department resized it. I might dig up a picture of the earlier (crashed) airplane with the small tail and post it. Two of the S/C protos crashed, although if memory serves only the first because of the tail. I know the test pilots, they came out fine although I am sure it was a hell of a day for each of them. Beyond that I can't think of anything else right offhand. Like I said, it is easy to design a big enough tail and what is surprising is when it is not big enough. It usually turns up during spin testing.
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http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...herresize1.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...skycatcher.jpg Notice the addition of a single ventral strake in the second photo. -Cub |
I was thinking about this and remembered the North American P-51 Mustang had control issues on takeoff due to insufficient rudder after the upgrade to the larger Merlin powerplant in later models. The issue concerned torque-roll during the takeoff run, which was an issue for new pilots who did not know there was a nasty roll coming during spool-up. They lost a few airframes and I do not think the problem was ever solved. This illustrates the relationship between rudder in the yaw and roll axes. It affects both.
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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 995936)
Vmc requires an airplane with more than one engine, not centerline thrust. In layman terms, it's the slowest speed where the flight controls can still maintain directional control under the worst conditions (critical engine, worst CG, max power....) The airplane is not stalled, it's directional control is lost.
Big enormous difference than Vs in a single. It also does not correlate at all with p-factor taking a powerful single off the taxiway due to poor technique. The bottom line is that at low airspeed (above the power on stall speed) there are directional control issues with the rudder.... just like Vmc in a twin... whether it's from torque, p-factor, whatever. |
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
(Post 996039)
I was thinking about this and remembered the North American P-51 Mustang had control issues on takeoff due to insufficient rudder after the upgrade to the larger Merlin powerplant in later models. The issue concerned torque-roll during the takeoff run, which was an issue for new pilots who did not know there was a nasty roll coming during spool-up. They lost a few airframes and I do not think the problem was ever solved. This illustrates the relationship between rudder in the yaw and roll axes. It affects both.
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Credit where due Hoss, you were first.
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Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 998003)
You could think about it OR you could merely go to post number 3 and read my response..;)
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/e...4/DSCN1101.jpg |
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
(Post 998027)
Credit where due Hoss, you were first.
I was just busting your chops a little no harm no foul...:) ryan, You're killing me dude! Is that yours and what model is it? The reason I ask is that my dad used to work for Cavalier when I was kid. He did a lot of post mod test flying on the Cavalier birds. Have you ever seen a RR Dart powered P-51? Check it out. Here a couple photos from the good old days at the Cavalier factory in SRQ. A heavily modified version of the P-51 which was being marketed as a light attack aircraft to third world countries. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...ARTmustang.jpg A standard export version Cavalier mod with optional tip tanks. Check the additional hard points under the wings. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../RRmustang.jpg |
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 998614)
Cub,
I was just busting your chops a little no harm no foul...:) ryan, You're killing me dude! Is that yours and what model is it? The reason I ask is that my dad used to work for Cavalier when I was kid. He did a lot of post mod test flying on the Cavalier birds. Have you ever seen a RR Dart powered P-51? Check it out. Here a couple photos from the good old days at the Cavalier factory in SRQ. A heavily modified version of the P-51 which was being marketed as a light attack aircraft to third world countries. A standard export version Cavalier mod with optional tip tanks. Check the additional hard points under the wings. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../RRmustang.jpg The Mustang (a P-51D) is absolutely not mine (I wish!!), it belongs to a friend of mine who is an all around awesome guy.... so far no jet (I've flown) can compare to the smell of fuel during the start and the vibrating raw power of a take off! |
Originally Posted by ryan1234
(Post 998682)
That is really awesome and I'm sure you have a lot of cool pictures from the Cavalier days! We need to talk some more...:)
The Mustang (a P-51D) is absolutely not mine (I wish!!), it belongs to a friend of mine who is an all around awesome guy.... so far no jet (I've flown) can compare to the smell of fuel during the start and the vibrating raw power of a take off! |
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