elal07

Has anyone gone through the aviation program at UND?
If so how was it and were their any regional jobs when you got out?

atr42flyer

Graduated in 2002

Save your money!

go get a degree in business or management or computer science and get your ratings at an FBO and you will save yourself thousands.

FlyerJosh

Graduated in May 2000. Hired at regional in Dec 2000.

JamesNoBrakes

The problem with ANY of these programs is that they cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they do not get you that job that pays $20-30K as an airline pilot. You have to make up a big deficit of "experience" to even have a shot, and how does it make sense to spend that much money for a job that pays that little and doesn't move? Things do not work like they used to when you used to spend a year or two at a regional and move up to the "big time", it's a totally new game. It's not that the schools are "out there to take your money", that's ridiculous, they pour that money into their programs and people aren't getting "fat" by working there, the issue is that the industry is totally broken, and everyone "washes their hands" of the issue.

The majors have cut back and back on routes, it's been cheaper for them to have regional airlines fly those routes, it's cheaper to pay the pilots less money, it keeps the airline "afloat" and makes more jobs right? It's not some magical "cycle" that's going to someday soon "kick off", the major airlines are shrinking in scope at the same time as the pilots are retiring. And where does anyone get off saying that "regional airlines are just a stepping stone"? What, it's not a real job? I can just fake it while I'm flying? The schools say "that's the industry and we can't change it", the pilots take the jobs because they want to fly jets or think that eventually they might "make it", the passengers just want the lowest tickets, and so on. Many of these airlines should have FAILED years ago, but congress and others kept them afloat and have damaged the industry big time.

These are the tough issues and questions that have to be answered. I love flying, I don't want to be a slave doing what I love though, that takes all the fun out of it. Think real hard about what you love, that trans-atlantic captain job isn't reachable in a reasonable lifetime, and there are thousands of pilots (yes, thousands!) in line to take it before you.

I went through one of the "major" programs, and they are good. Based on my experience almost NO ONE else really holds students/pilots to actual standards in terms of maneuvers and tasks. Maybe you can find a "down home" school and instructor, and maybe that instructor will want to be your friend and show you all sorts of cool stuff about flying, but that instructor and the designated examiner may not really hold you to the standards (I've seen it over and over), and you may not really understand what you actually need to understand for a certificate or rating. Then when you get to a real professional flight department, you won't last through the first week. And while that part about maintaining standards is good, no one really cares unless you have thousands of hours and turbine time and the focus of all the classes and academic work is based on subjects and material that you won't even touch for probably the next 10 years...advanced transatlantic navigation? Turbine engine theory? Aircraft performance? Crew resource management? These are worthless, your airline will teach you what you need to know about these, but having all the "extra" that you'll forget over that time doesn't benefit you at all. Maybe if you were about to step to the right seat of an A320 right after graduation, but that's not the way it works, even if you are an outstanding student and pilot.

It's not worth the debt when you could be relatively debt free and building an RV-7 to fly around yourself (or just buy any other airplane). Do some research about what it really means to be a regional airline pilot. Pretty much everyone that graduated with me 7+ years ago is still "stuck". What they earn at those regional airlines is pathetic given their responsibility and training.

Find something you "like" so you can do what you "love".

k5beason

You need to take in account the proposed rule making that will most likely require 1500 hrs to be a fo on a regional. Collegiant training and a aviation specific degree will most likely lower this mins. The FBO is certainly cheaper but not if you don't finish by 2013 and have to have 1500 hrs

Vito

K5beason,

You hit the nail on the head, without an accredited Aviation Program a new pilot will have to find a way to fill the gap between 150 hours of flight training and the 750 or 1500 that will be required by the time the new NPRM comes out!

drewtei

Some of the lesser known/smaller colleges w/ aviation programs aren't as ridiculous. University of Maryland - Eastern Shore for example, the price is still up there, but it's better (and your not in ND )

LIOG41

For example,

UND forms partnership with Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Delta | 10 | 2011 | News | The University of North Dakota

Reciprocity eligibility or eventually qualifying for in-state residency will help lower the cost. Go take a tour and see what you think. They have plenty of non-aviation related opportunities as well within the university.

block30

Doesn't UND not grant anything greater than the private unless you take the end of college all in one check ride? Where I instructed I had a few folks who came from there with all kinds of training past their private,but decided to transfer because they felt the cost at UND was too high, yet still only had their private. That is A LOT of money down the toilet. Where I went, you took each checkride and got the associated FAA ticket right then. So if a student decided to leave the program, they still had the tickets the rightfully earned.

Remember, when you talk to university recruiters, they are literally trying to SELL you something. Just like a military recruiter, its all about them, not you. Caveat emptor!

UND and other aviation programs are trying really hard to cut their losses right now with flashy ad campaigns. Folks like you are using the internet to find out the TRUTH about the airline industry and the flight training industry that feeds the airlines. I have said this many times; I wish I had the internet when I was young. I could have found out what land mines to side step. Read the entire thread asking about the OU flight program, which is a few threads behind yours. Notice how this person's opinion changed big time on flying, careers, and university programs. Best wishes!

JamesNoBrakes

Best question (as my school had similar agreements) to ask them is: How many of your graduates are now working for Delta under that program/plan? You're probably going to get a "zero". What percentage of your graduates get hired by airlines right out of school (that will get them right in the jimmies!)? Then ask how much they can expect to make? Then ask, if it takes x amount of money (remember that they low-ball the figures) to go to school and get certificates, what's the point if you can't get a decent job? There ARE good programs at these schools, make no mistake, but for the last 10+ years, "piloting" hasn't been one of them. They may offer some suggestions or other ideas though that would let you be involved in aviation. You've just got to make sure it's what you want and that you understand what it entails.

If you can't get a job right out of school (almost never happens), what does it matter if it's 500 or 1500 hours? Not all that much, you still have a "gap" to make up, not to mention that insurance drives minimums, and the insurance company may just say "1500 minimum", to make things simple, even though the law may allow for less if you are graduating from some university.

The problem is that NO ONE is going to tell you this stuff up front. Then they will claim later that you "should have known" this all along. It's not just ignorance, most people don't know better and no one is held accountable for not educating them during the process. Just realize that you have to do 95% of your "education" yourself, whether we're talking about in a university or not.