Solo flying with student pilot cert.
#11
It might have made my cause sound better if I fillled y'all in on a little back ground info about my training.
I have already completed all of my solo requirements for my PPL and actually have about 20hrs solo already. I had an FAA medical situation that put me on hold for a very long time and just now got back to flying. All of my old instruction was with a different CFI and my new(er) one has already given me probably 30 hours of dual instruction. A lot of that is just me paying him so I could go fly with no medical of SPC.
Anyways, I have passed the written test and all we have left is for him to endorse my new SPC and medical certificate. He wants to fly with me 2 weekends in a row and practice strictly for the check ride then he will sign me off and I'll take my checkride. In all honesty I should have my PPL within the month unless something unforseen happens.
So with that being said, of course I would let him know when I was going to fly first. That just seems like common courtsey. To be honest though, and I know I might get some **** for this, if he said no and the weather was really nice I might just do it anyways and not tell him ONLY if he couldn't be held liable for my actions. I would never knowingly put someone on the line like that.
So, new question: If the only restrictions he gives me are weather related and I fly without telling him or after he said no; could he be held liable for my actions?
I have already completed all of my solo requirements for my PPL and actually have about 20hrs solo already. I had an FAA medical situation that put me on hold for a very long time and just now got back to flying. All of my old instruction was with a different CFI and my new(er) one has already given me probably 30 hours of dual instruction. A lot of that is just me paying him so I could go fly with no medical of SPC.
Anyways, I have passed the written test and all we have left is for him to endorse my new SPC and medical certificate. He wants to fly with me 2 weekends in a row and practice strictly for the check ride then he will sign me off and I'll take my checkride. In all honesty I should have my PPL within the month unless something unforseen happens.
So with that being said, of course I would let him know when I was going to fly first. That just seems like common courtsey. To be honest though, and I know I might get some **** for this, if he said no and the weather was really nice I might just do it anyways and not tell him ONLY if he couldn't be held liable for my actions. I would never knowingly put someone on the line like that.
So, new question: If the only restrictions he gives me are weather related and I fly without telling him or after he said no; could he be held liable for my actions?
#12
So with that being said, of course I would let him know when I was going to fly first. That just seems like common courtsey. To be honest though, and I know I might get some **** for this, if he said no and the weather was really nice I might just do it anyways and not tell him ONLY if he couldn't be held liable for my actions. I would never knowingly put someone on the line like that.
So, new question: If the only restrictions he gives me are weather related and I fly without telling him or after he said no; could he be held liable for my actions?
So, new question: If the only restrictions he gives me are weather related and I fly without telling him or after he said no; could he be held liable for my actions?
Yes, a CFI is liable for your actions while you have his solo endorsement. Weather is a limitation. Don't ruin your professional relationship with instructor by doing something like this. It'll make you look like a douche. As a pilot, you don't go around the rules when it's convenient, you follow them. In this case, the CFI made the rules. As I said before, if you don't like his rules - find another CFI.
As a CFI, if I can't trust my students to do something as basic as telling me when they are up in the air, I am not going to have them flying around with my endorsement. It is part of bad "aeronautical decision making". What are you going to do when you "don't tell your instructor that you're flying" and then have a runway incursion?!
P.s. if you have 20 hours of solo already to include 5 hours local SOLO + 5 hours SOLO cross-country, then you don't need any more solo time. Focus on the checkride prep.
#13
Ok, well I dont want you under the impression that my CFI has put any restrictions on me because he hasn't. Also, he wouldn't tell me I couldn't fly if the weather was nice. I am asking purely hypothetical questions to find out what I can and cant do... legally. I will always tell him before I fly. He is my friend also, not only my CFI. I have known him a very long time.
I am asking purely to find out, HYPOTHETICALLY if I did do something like that, could my instructor loose his liscence. If I had his permission and messed up, could he then? Like I said before.. I would never put my instructor in jeopardy. I could care less about looking like a douche.
It seems like it would be hard to find an instructor to let you solo at all if he were to be held liable if you crashed at any point even during a supervised solo.
I dont need more solo time? I need to fly as much as possible. I need to get my commercial ASAP. I work for an agricultural flying service (going on 4 years) and my boss has promised me a flying job after i get my ticket.
All of this is stemming from the burning desire Ive had to fly my 120 by myself this entire year I've owned it while I was waiting on my medical. Ive been tempted to go take her up when no one is around but have abstained from such behaivior. It's going to be a lot harder to do that after he endorses me to solo. Then it will be legal and my insurance will cover me by myself.
I am asking purely to find out, HYPOTHETICALLY if I did do something like that, could my instructor loose his liscence. If I had his permission and messed up, could he then? Like I said before.. I would never put my instructor in jeopardy. I could care less about looking like a douche.
It seems like it would be hard to find an instructor to let you solo at all if he were to be held liable if you crashed at any point even during a supervised solo.
I dont need more solo time? I need to fly as much as possible. I need to get my commercial ASAP. I work for an agricultural flying service (going on 4 years) and my boss has promised me a flying job after i get my ticket.
All of this is stemming from the burning desire Ive had to fly my 120 by myself this entire year I've owned it while I was waiting on my medical. Ive been tempted to go take her up when no one is around but have abstained from such behaivior. It's going to be a lot harder to do that after he endorses me to solo. Then it will be legal and my insurance will cover me by myself.
#14
Ok, well I dont want you under the impression that my CFI has put any restrictions on me because he hasn't. Also, he wouldn't tell me I couldn't fly if the weather was nice. I am asking purely hypothetical questions to find out what I can and cant do... legally. I will always tell him before I fly. He is my friend also, not only my CFI. I have known him a very long time.
The student that I mentioned who went flying solo without telling me, he was perfectly legal to start and finish the flight, however it's not what we had talked about... so he lost his privileges to fly solo. There are enough things that can go wrong on a solo flight, a CFI doesn't want anyone with "hazardous attitudes" flying solo on their ticket.
I am asking purely to find out, HYPOTHETICALLY if I did do something like that, could my instructor loose his liscence. If I had his permission and messed up, could he then? Like I said before.. I would never put my instructor in jeopardy. I could care less about looking like a douche.
All of this is stemming from the burning desire Ive had to fly my 120 by myself this entire year I've owned it while I was waiting on my medical. Ive been tempted to go take her up when no one is around but have abstained from such behaivior. It's going to be a lot harder to do that after he endorses me to solo. Then it will be legal and my insurance will cover me by myself.
Last edited by Gajre539; 03-04-2012 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Added link
#15
Thanks for all the feedback here I really appreciate it.
He will be endorsing my logbook this weekend, so no he has not imposed any restrictions on me flying solo as of yet. He is under the impression that legally he has to be at the airport and I did not think that was true. However, he might put that restriction on me anyways but it isn't anything we have talked about yet. I am hoping he doesent.
Your saying I dont need aditional solo time for my PPL. That is true. I really just want to fly my plane the week after he endorses me and the few weeks before my checkride. I'm sure you probably dont know what it is like to own an airplane that you cant fly. It has been driving me crazy for the past year.
After this weekend we will see how he feels about me flying solo when he is not at the airport. I am hoping he will be sympathetic because he did just up and move in the middle of my training literally the week before I got my medical. I'd love to show him this thread but there is that little part where I said that I might fly if he says I cant and I'm not sure I want him to read that!
He will be endorsing my logbook this weekend, so no he has not imposed any restrictions on me flying solo as of yet. He is under the impression that legally he has to be at the airport and I did not think that was true. However, he might put that restriction on me anyways but it isn't anything we have talked about yet. I am hoping he doesent.
Your saying I dont need aditional solo time for my PPL. That is true. I really just want to fly my plane the week after he endorses me and the few weeks before my checkride. I'm sure you probably dont know what it is like to own an airplane that you cant fly. It has been driving me crazy for the past year.
After this weekend we will see how he feels about me flying solo when he is not at the airport. I am hoping he will be sympathetic because he did just up and move in the middle of my training literally the week before I got my medical. I'd love to show him this thread but there is that little part where I said that I might fly if he says I cant and I'm not sure I want him to read that!
#16
Welcome to foot-in-mouthville. Everyone talks tough on the Internet anyways, just admit you made a mistake saying that. Biggest thing now that I would want to see is you making good sound judgements on your own skills
#18
You are right. I should not have said that!
I must admit I am playing a little bit of the devils advocate here. I am not so fast to do things that will make me look bad in real life! HA
#19
As instructors we need to guard against the "perpetual student", that student who does not really care enough about their license to put forth the effort to get done with it but instead enjoys being able to fly solo every now and then for fun. The FARs do not prevent this and we have to watch for it as instructors. Making it worse is how hard it is to decide sometimes exactly who is serious and who is shining us on for the fun of flying without a license. I just had to kick someone out who had numerous 90 day renewals yet never made any progress and hardly scheduled any training flights. You have to ask them every flight what they worked on and how they are doing. There also needs to be a minimum flight frequency for progress to be ongoing. At least one flight a week is the minimum I use.
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