Airline Pilot Central Forums - Best place for initial CFI

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Flight Schools and Training (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-schools-training/)

- - Best place for initial CFI (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-schools-training/67068-best-place-initial-cfi.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1179780)

I'd have to go next door to see if they have statistics for this (or guidance), but deviating by a few % points is quite different than a particular office having a 20% pass rate for instance!

USMCFLYR

Rumors in Atlanta had theirs at less than 10% pass some years ago, but no one outside the system knows. Since you have access maybe you could tell us whether the rumors are well-founded once you take a look.

So there were only 2668 new CFIs in 2010. I would have thought more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1179798)

Rumors in Atlanta had theirs at less than 10% pass some years ago, but no one outside the system knows. Since you have access maybe you could tell us whether the rumors are well-founded once you take a look.

Even without insider knowledge this is awfully hard for me to imagine. If a FSDO actually had a less than 10% pass rate - I couldn't imagine the ruckus it would raise within AFS, not to mention the numerous -709s that would undoubtably be issued to the multiple instructors who would consistently put applicants up for checkrides with such a high failure rate.
Two former FSDO type guys are in Indoc class downstairs though this week. If I get a chance I'll ask them if they know what kind of tracking or guidance they were given in training (though at least one of them was a -121 type ASI, not GA).

USMCFLYR

Is it one or both of these guys?
Attachment 1320

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1179836)

Is it one or both of these guys?
Attachment 1320

:D Shawn is one of them, but the other's name is Jeff!
I tried to catch them just now at the scheduled break, but wouldn't you know it, the FAA can't keep to a schedule!!!!! :eek::D

USMCFLYR

just go to All ATP and do there 2 week cfi program. Examiners are sitting on a cash cow, you will not fail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfiguy11 (Post 1179841)

just go to All ATP and do there 2 week cfi program. Examiners are sitting on a cash cow, you will not fail.

http://billdunlap.files.wordpress.co...palm.jpg?w=590

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1179798)

I heard the same thing from the FSDO at DFW, but their passing rate was a little over 20% a few years back, but then again I do not have solid statistic to back up my numbers. A few minutes ago, spoke to a DPE and these were his words "This is the toughest check ride you'll take, and unless you prove me otherwise, I do not pass first time CFI candidates, they usually pass the second time around", but Bob what about your passing rate I said? "the power of averages...I have 95% CFII passing rate".

I know the stats posted are combined. If only 1-4 FSDO's are 20% pass rate, then that means that the others have to be around 80%? Seems unlikely from most students I have heard from. I imagine around 65-75% pass; No more.

Thanks USMC. Also, in the ASI guidebook there is a clause for them to investigate/backseat any DPE with a higher than 90% pass rate. Nothing about low rate though.

I still find it hilarious that the FSDO pass rate is greater than the DPE pass rate!

OK - had dinner with the two former FSDO guys (one was GA too) and brought this topic up for conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by themagicman00 (Post 1179170)

The passing rate for the first time CFI candidates is around 20%, tends to be the toughest check-ride in your aviation career. The bar is set high, so prepare yourself with proper lesson plans and a solid knowledge.
good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yimke (Post 1179712)

Where are you getting this number from?

Here's mine

Knowlege Test 79%

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/avi...ge%20Tests.pdf

Practical Test 71% by DPE and 72% by ASI's :D

Scroll down to table 19
US Civil Airmen Statistics

I was given a website, but I can't remember it, that you could look up all of the stats from and it might have been where yimke got his info from but I think it was another place. In any case - the FISMS does keep records but doesn't break it down by regions if I understood him right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1179745)

Thanks for posting those ACTUAL statistics yimke.
Sort of like military flight school washout rates, the CFI pass rates tend to grow more dire with every passing tale. ;)
I'll bet that a DPE or an ASI with a passing rate of less than 50% would be getting a hard look from the higher-ups; the same as would a DPE or ASI with a 99% pass rate I imagine.

USMCFLYR

Both the former 121 ASI and GA ASI agreed 110% with what I stated above. If a particular FSDO's office was having anywhere near below a 50% pass rate for any particular certificate or rating is would raise HUGE red flags all up and down the hallways (to include generating numerous -709s for the CFIs like I mentioned). It would get high level attention from the FAA higher ups and the GA guy mentioned that the FSDO office would never let it get down that low without pulling in (and I don't mean physically) all the schools and CFIs and putting out some information on what they are seeing with the problems so they could correct it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1179780)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1179798)

Rumors in Atlanta had theirs at less than 10% pass some years ago, but no one outside the system knows. Since you have access maybe you could tell us whether the rumors are well-founded once you take a look.

Quote:

I heard the same thing from the FSDO at DFW, but their passing rate was a little over 20% a few years back, but then again I do not have solid statistic to back up my numbers.

This GA friend has a friend who has been at the DFW area FSDO for under a year I think and currently has around a 60% pass rate and is getting the reputation at someone who others avoid and the bosses are questioning him and telling him to get his numbers up.

yimke - you said:

Quote:

I know the stats posted are combined. If only 1-4 FSDO's are 20% pass rate, then that means that the others have to be around 80%? Seems unlikely from most students I have heard from. I imagine around 65-75% pass; No more.

Thanks USMC. Also, in the ASI guidebook there is a clause for them to investigate/backseat any DPE with a higher than 90% pass rate. Nothing about low rate though.

The GA guy echoed this very information down to the percentage without me bringing it up in conversation. I think this ASI guidebook must be the FISMS that he was talking about.

Now these are only two guys who didn't spend more than a few years in the respective FSDOs, but their input combined with what I know first hand about how numbers are watched in the FAA in general just raises a red flag when I hear about 10-20% pass rates. As the GA guy said - - they don't have the manpower to make all of those rechecks or to do the paperwork that would be associated with such a low pass rate. He agrees that it is the hardest checkride and that it has the highest failure rate (25-35% failure as stated above).

USMCFLYR