Comparing Part 141 Flight Schools
 

Hello all,

I've decided that a Part 141 school is my best choice, so now I need to choose where to go. I'd like to ask about your opinions on what I should do.

Basically I am considering the following three:

1. ATP (close to home)
2. FlightSafety Academy (out of state)
3. Aerosim (out of state)

My question is, would I get a more thorough training at FlightSafety and Aerosim? They seem to charge a bit of a premium over ATP but also offer more in terms of teaching.

Thanks in advance! And if you would like to recommend any other part 141 schools (Southeast US only), please feel free to share!

I did FlightSafety..very happy with the training, facilities, housing, fleet, etc...from what I've heard, ATP is more studying on your own, trained to only pass a check ride.

PM me if you would like some more info on FSA

You seem to be focusing on large flight schools...in this business large is not always better.

FSA has a good reputation, and since their real business is simulator training for professionals they are not going to doing anything stupid to tarnish that reputation (other large schools have commonly embezzled all of their students money and skipped town, etc). If cost is no object, FSA would be good.

If you want to save money, look at small local schools close to home. That way you can live at home, maybe keep a part-time or full-time job, and train at your own pace for significantly less money. You will need to do your homework about any school (small or large). Obviously talk to the staff, try to get a feel if they are helpful, or just high-pressure salesmen. Also note if they are honest. If they tell you you'll be flying a widebody jet for a major airline in 2-3 years or other outrageous lies then run away. Also avoid schools which want massive amounts of money on deposit in advance...if things don't work out you will have a very hard time getting that money back. Also note that few students finish all training in the minimum amount of time required, plan on needed some extra money for that.

But the most important research you can do is to talk to current students and CFI's. You will want to do this out on the ramp, or in the parking lot away from management so they feel comfortable being honest with you.

In these days of fewer opportunities for CFI's you should also chose a school which has a very good chance of hiring you as a CFI, and preferably does multi-engine instruction too. Ask the students and CFI's what are the odds of getting meaningful CFI employment after your training.

Also high cost does not equal quality, and quality does not equal better employment prospects. Someone will lie to you about this, but unlike traditional education where a "name brand" school means better job opportunities, aviation employers ALMOST NEVER CARE ABOUT WHERE YOU GOT YOUR TRAINING, unless it was US military flight training. Employers care about ratings and hours only so look for the most cost-effective means of getting ratings and seek out the kinds of jobs which will provide the experience you need (multi-engine and/or turbine).

If you burden yourself with large debt, in a few years you will be asking yourself why the heck you did that when the guys sitting next got to the same place just as fast with little or no debt. Aviation no longer pays well enough to support student payments.

Are you choosing a 141 over 61? or choosing a large school, which happens to be 141, over smaller schools?

I ask because there are smaller "mom-n-pop" 141 operations out there.

Rick has some really good advice. From experience I would avoid putting all of your money down at once. Even though you may get a discount it is not worth the headache if you ever want to leave the school or if your plans change. Take your time choosing and if the owner seems very pushy, don't get suckered in. It's your money and I would choose very carefully especially with the amount you will be spending.

Large vs small it is all what you make of it when you are there. Network as much as you can where ever you go.

I went the 141 route, and wish I had not. If I had to do it over, I would go 61. Would have saved myself a lot of money, and would have the same ratings. Not sure what your long term plan/goals are, but I would strongly urge you to get a useful bachelors and fly on the side. Always good to have a fall back position, especially in today's market. You can pm me if you want the details from my 141 school.

And the caveat to this is that many "accelerated" schools will train you to pass a checkride, and just a week later you may have lost the skills and ability to pass it again, and in many cases the checkride wasn't really a fair test of your abilities and training, just a hobbled-together-"you didn't kill me, so you pass" type situation. Unfortunately, I've found this to be common at various schools, rather than really ensuring that the applicant knows his stuff and can do it well. Except for a few very gifted individuals that have to be VERY careful about how they utilize their skills and knowledge, most people take a while to develop the correct skills for the appropriate certificate and rating. Learning "fast" or "cheap" may hurt you down the line when you do a sim check-out and can't fly partial panel on "steam guages" or correctly interpret directions, clearances and charts.

But, the overall message is true, they don't care where you got your training, as long as you perform to the standard and have the required hours.

All,

Thanks for your replies, they've been very helpful.

The reason I am going with 141 is because I know how tough the US job market is, and I want to leave a door open for working overseas in case things don't look good for me around here once my training is done. While overseas carriers may not care either, some may, and the ability to put the name of a reputable school on my resume is appealing to me under these circumstances.

Also, I am worried about instruction quality at Part 161. I am sure there are plenty of good ones, and likewise bad apples as Part 141, but the more structured course at better known schools (like FSA) with a reputation to keep offer some safeguards against that.

141 won't make much difference in the US, might make some difference overseas, but what will make a difference is the experience that you get after getting your commercial.

I went to Spartan, Reginal Airline Academy and ATP...... With that said Spartan is a total RIP-OFF, Reginal airline academy went bank rupt. ATP did eveything they said they would do. Only down side to ATP is you have to be devoted this means studying and flying your butt off. I wish I would have went ATP from the get go.

Old Thread -- Still Pertinent Comment
 

I'm presently a student at Flight Safety, since I wanted to go the 141 route. While the quality of the curriculum, the instructors and the training fleet are all top notch, there are A LOT of students here, which can slow things down, A LOT... Students are bailing out of here because of this.



As for ATP, I want to offer one comment: although they may be licensed under both parts 61 and 141, ATP DOES NOT operate any actual programs under part 141. I found this out when I asked about veterans benefits. They allow no usage of or access to veterans benefits, since the VA only funds 141 programs and ATP does only part 61 instruction. That immediately and permanently knocked them off of my list.



I hasten to add that I'm not implying anything about the quality of ATP programs -- only that they do it all under 61, and they're a NO-GO for veterans with benefits.

For clarity, there is no "licensing" under part 61. Anyone can operate a flight school under part 61, there is no FAA oversight on that, you just follow the rules in part 61 and 91.


A 141 operator does need FAA certification. Merely holding a 141 certificate does nothing for students, but it's something schools can claim in their advertising to sound important.


You are correct that GI Bill flight training benefits may only be used for specific part 141 training programs (ie IR, CPL, CFI, ATP, type ratings, etc).




141 inherently does little or nothing for quality, it's mostly just a paperwork drill. In fact, 141 programs are so inflexible that it rarely makes economic sense to do 141, unless you stand to gain some sort of benefits tied to 141 by law (ie GI Bill, R-ATP mins).

Beware of 141 schools that offer the moon.

I'd argue that you could get better instruction part 61, and quicker too.

Gup

I agree completely about better instruction at 61 schools right now, if one puts in the time to make it work with a career instructor (most 141 schools are laden with inexperienced CFI’s right now).

With this in mind, why do so many (including some regional recruiters) still believe that 141 is better prep for 121 flying? Is this an antiquated notion or does the structure of a 141 syllabus alone still serve as better prep for 121?