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80 lbs over gross TOW

Old 07-21-2012, 10:43 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by atr42flyer View Post
80lbs is over the fudge factor? really on any given day airliners take off thousands of pounds overweight, when you think about it per the FAA the avg airline passenger weighs only 175lbs and their bags only weigh 30lbs each. I am sure your little cessna would have handled 80lbs pounds over just fine. I am with the boss on this one get the job done. rookie
I didn't read the rest of this thread.....Is this sarcasm? You can't be serious.

I don't even know what to say to this post.
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:29 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by atr42flyer View Post
80lbs is over the fudge factor? really on any given day airliners take off thousands of pounds overweight, when you think about it per the FAA the avg airline passenger weighs only 175lbs and their bags only weigh 30lbs each. I am sure your little cessna would have handled 80lbs pounds over just fine. I am with the boss on this one get the job done. rookie
OK...let's break this down.

Single engine vs. twin jet

Engine out climb demonstrated vs. glide ratio with the only engine out

Follow the FAR's vs. some right seat wizard calling him a "rookie."

We can all pretty clearly see who the ROOKIE is here and who the PROFESSIONAL is.

Don't know who you fly for, but I pity the Captains who have to fly with you. I'd take the "kid" in the 172 as my right seat any day over someone who thinks like you do.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:10 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat View Post
OK...let's break this down.

{snip}

Don't know who you fly for, but I pity the Captains who have to fly with you. I'd take the "kid" in the 172 as my right seat any day over someone who thinks like you do.
Where's the like button on this thing?

Perhaps ATR is just messing with us, but if so it's in a completely inappropriate thread and context.

Years ago I dealt with a jacka$$ like this while flying a piston twin for an owner. Dead of winter, in Iowa City. I attempted to get the aircraft into a hangar for the evening but was told there was no space available (which turned out to be a lie, he just didn't want to bother with it - and we would have gladly paid). I come back from dinner to find the aircraft covered with a thick layer of frost. No de-icing available, still no hanger. The co-pilot and myself are out there scraping the frost off of a 400 series Cessna with credit cards to try and make the departure, all the while that a-hole E.K. Jones who ran the FBO is standing there telling the owner he doen't know why we're doing that, and I quote:
"It's smooth frost, it would be fine. If I had my medical, I'd fly it around the pattern right now..."
I remember suggesting to E.K. that there didn't appear to be any feds around and he was welcome to give it a shot. He did not take that option, but continued to run his mouth.

I know one should not speak ill of the dead, but as far as I'm concerned people like E.K. Jones are complete pieces of fecal material. ATR's comment to this poster pretty much puts him in that same category.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #34  
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You ll be surpised on how much the cessna can pick up....

Just add flaps and go!

The real question is why is that skinny girl with that fat guy?
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:11 AM
  #35  
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You did the right thing Irish and here's some time tested advice for you -
"There are old pilots and bold pilots ,but there are no old bold pilots"
Next time something like this happens,you just throw this saying at them.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:41 AM
  #36  
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Case and point, Aeronautical Decision Making. You made a decision based on hard data provided from the manufacturer of the aircraft. People are counting on you to take them up and bring them down safely. They TRUST that you are operating the aircraft safely and competently so their families will see them at the end of the day. Could have the 172 have handled 80lbs over gross? Probably so. Should you have risked it? No. Safety and the concern of the lives of your passengers was more important. How would you have explained that to the families of the passengers if one of them was injured or killed? The real issue is the mentality of your boss and those hazardous attitudes that we all learned when we first became pilots.
Good call, skipper.

Last edited by TheFly; 07-27-2012 at 08:43 AM. Reason: 1 more line
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:45 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat View Post
OK...let's break this down.

Single engine vs. twin jet

Engine out climb demonstrated vs. glide ratio with the only engine out

Follow the FAR's vs. some right seat wizard calling him a "rookie."

We can all pretty clearly see who the ROOKIE is here and who the PROFESSIONAL is.

Don't know who you fly for, but I pity the Captains who have to fly with you. I'd take the "kid" in the 172 as my right seat any day over someone who thinks like you do.
+1. What a character.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:45 AM
  #38  
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First of all, there is no "probably" about it, the plane would have flown fine. Secondly, you could stand to lose a few pounds. ;-)

The solution to this problem was to take one of them for an "intro" flight and come back after burning off 80 pounds. Since that probably wasn't an option you did the right thing.

One thing to remember is once you made an issue about the weight and balance your hands were tied. The more people who know about the problem the less you are able to "ignor" the problem. It's like a squawk on the airplane. Start telling others about a squawk and you'll certainly have to write it up. Keep it to your self and you can decide whether there may be a more appropriate place to write it up. I'm just saying.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:05 AM
  #39  
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Default The Math....

A former instructor and I recently had almost this same exact conversation, and here's how it came out.

First and foremost, as PIC, you absolutely can, should and MUST speak up if you aren't comfortable going. So I absolutely defend your choice in that regard.

However, here's what my former instructor and I went through when discussing it.

My C172 has a MTOW of 2400 lbs. That means it can climb, and do 3+ G turns at that weight, and do that with a safety factor of around 150%.
That means it could fly straight-n-level, un-accelerated flight at 2400lbs. x 3G = 7200lbs. and STILL have a safety factor of 150%.

WHOA: 7200lbs!

(granted, the plane won't take off at that weight. If it did, the climb performance will be non-existent, and its possible the landing gear may collapse on landing. But in the air, it would be theoretically fine)

As a result, I'd ask yourself: Are you planning on doing 3G turns? Are you taking off or landing at a short runway? Do you have obstacles at the end of the runway? Is it a hot day, or are there other factors affecting density altitude or airplane performance. Is the wind against you?

If the answer to ALL those questions works in your favor, you have to make a tough call. Flying illegal is illegal. If you got ramp-checked, or if there was an accident then it'd be your ass. But will the airplane perform at that weight? It seems likely it will.

The analogy of speeding 75 MPH in a 60MPH is pretty good. You might get a ticket, but the car won't fall apart around you.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:42 PM
  #40  
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Thumbs up Did the right thing.

You did the right thing but that does not stop an owner from passing you over next time for someone who will get the job done. It is a hard place to be in. Don't try to fly in Alaska.

Skyhigh
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