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Advice on professional flight training.

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Advice on professional flight training.

Old 07-25-2012, 09:31 PM
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Default Advice on professional flight training.

Hello everyone. I am a recent graduate of Industrial Engineering and I am just about to start flight training in order to become an airline pilot. During several months of searching through the web I’ve found much information that has been useful for me in order to learn the steps I should follow to reach the many pilot certifications I need. I’ve found hundreds of flight schools in the US but my biggest issue is that I can’t decide which academy to attend. I am not looking to do a Bachelor degree again, only the flight training. I looked at Sportys, ATP, FlightSafety, Aerosim, etc. etc. (and smaller academies), but it’s hard to decide since I’m outside of US and I can’t go personally to each one and take a look. I would like you to please give me an advice related to this topic. Also, I’ve heard comments that spending so much money in these large academies is not worth, so I should consider small flight trainers that are going to give me a more personalized training. Which flight school can you recommend me? I am looking to do this as professional as possible, so I believe that a good quality training is necessary for entering any airline (a flight trainer that has good job connections is important too). Actually, does airlines care from which flight school you graduated? Thank you for your advice.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:38 PM
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I would advise training at your local FBO as opposed to dropping 50-60k down on an accelerated program like ATP. Airlines aren't going to care where you got your ratings.

Where do you live? Check out the municipal airports in your area, compare the prices of their aircraft (c152, c172, piper warriors etc) and check out the cheapest school.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:39 AM
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Since you are outside of the United States you might be limited to which schools you can attend as you will need to fly with a TSA approved CFI and you will need a school that can help you get a visa.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:11 AM
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something else to note also... and this is something I've been coming across more frequently as of late:

When trying to find a job as a low-time commercial pilot, most of the minimums are 500 hours. Even at the jobs that used to take pilots at 250 or 300 hours. BUT, the one question I get asked is, "did you do your training at a 61 or 141 school"? And when I tell them 141, they definitely like it better and are a little more willing to go beneath the set minimums. Also having a CFI helps a lot. Good luck and choose wisely! It does matter where you go to school.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:44 AM
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Benefits of the bigger schools include standardized training, more consistent training, usually more professional training, usually faster pace, usually harder "groundschools" that are more beneficial when you move to a professional flight department of any kind (airline, cargo, corporate, etc). Negatives include the fast learning rate, because you tend to not really retain much of the material and sometimes never really learn or understand certain maneuvers and topics, you just train hard enough to pass the checkride. It's not necessarily that it's a "sanitized environment" where nothing out of the ordinary happens, but due to the fast pace and limited experience you sometimes never experience much that is "out of the ordinary". Many times these flight schools hire their own, and you get assigned an instructor that just got their certificate a few months or weeks back. This is a case of the blind-leading-the-blind often. I've seen a couple that were excellent, but the schools that really enforce the quality don't get the best reputation for cost and quickness. Sometimes the check instructors or examiners don't really enforce the standards, and you end up passing and not really benefiting from the training.

Benefits of the smaller schools include more personal training, possibly better experience with the flight instructors, as they are more "long-term" and not just trying to build hours to go fly an airliner, sometimes the benefit is in dealing with more real-world equipment failures and decision making situations, but sometimes it's just downright dangerous and there's no good excuse for some of the stuff they do or that you get put into. You might be able to mitigate cost more here by "stretching out" training, but in the end this usually ends up costing you more, it's just more spread out is the thing. As far as other negatives, sometimes the smaller school includes the "reject instructors" from the big school. he drop-out rate in professional flight department ground schools can be much higher, although you might have better flying skills. The learning pace is slower and You often get the same issue of the designated examiners not really enforcing the standards at times. The instructors may not be as up to date on recent regulatory, training, and industry trends/rules.

If I had to do my training again, I'd probably do it the same way (big university, not "accelerated"). It comes down to the individual, but too many people expect to be spoon-fed information and that somehow their presence will impart the necessary understanding and knowledge. I had plenty of experience with actual instrument conditions, decisions with faulty equipment, and a pretty good understanding of most maneuvers and aerodynamics. If you aren't getting what you want, you have to do something about it. You have to see the chief pilot or someone higher. If they treat you like crap, you need to find a different school, but you also have to sit and think about what they tell you. Are they doing it for your benefit because they really want you to be successful? Or are they doing it because they want your money? All of them are businesses, but some actually want to do well, despite what you hear on these boards.

It's hard to make overall rules. Many of these are not consistent. It comes down to the student. At part 61, they are often self-motivated. At 141, they are often there because mommy and daddy are paying for flight training, and they are not quite sure if they even want to be a pilot (later on, they might blame the school for taking their money, but it's not the schools fault for trying to train someone). This might make it "appear" that a part 61 is better because the students are happier, but it's apples to oranges. Often times students in part 141 do not know how good they have it in terms of standardization, until they go fly part 61 and come back horrified at the lack in standardization and standard practices by instructors (leaving the student guessing as to what is the correct course of action or procedure with a particular instructor).

Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 07-26-2012 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:54 AM
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I went to a 141 school that didn't have a single instructor with less than 1,000 hours. Times are tight and people don't want to go to the regionals for less than they make as flight instructors. Most of the instructors I know also have Part91 charter gigs or are looking for them. Or do other work on the side like ferry ops or seasonal aerial survey work.

There are good 141 schools out there, you just have to look. My school also happened to be apart of a Charter Company so when I did my turbine transition (systems training with the maintenance staff who specialized on the King Air and Standard operating procedures with the chief pilot for my FO duties) I got 15 hours of KA200 time as well. They also offer some time in a Citation jet if you would prefer that. And now I do the occasional 91 KA200 flight as well as other stuff on the side for work.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:42 AM
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Normally I would recommend carefully selecting a small school with good rates, good managers, good instructors, good Mx, and a good training philosophy. But this takes some leg-work that might be hard to accomplish from abroad.

Here are two small schools which some of the members of this forum often recommend:
Prairie Air Service (Kansas)
Scandinavian (California)

Otherwise I would probably recommend a bog academy because you can learn a lot about them on the internet and can probably avoid serious pitfalls.

If money is no object I would go with Flight Safety or Aerosim...they are owned by companies who are involved in professional (large, turbine) aircraft training and they are not going to risk their reputation in the industry by running a fly-by-night ab initio flight school with their name it. Their need to maintain their industry reputation is a pretty good guarantee of quality (but not economy).

If money is an issue look at ATP's etc. But when considering large schools with multiple locations, ask about the location you plan on attending...different location can have different managers.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:18 PM
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You'll make significantly more money as an industrial engineer than you will as a pilot and live a better quality life at the same time.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by threeighteen View Post
You'll make significantly more money as an industrial engineer than you will as a pilot and live a better quality life at the same time.
haha yea what he said... start a successful career as an engineer and buy a cheap little plane to fly on the weekends for fun.

or get all of your flight ratings and apply with a national guard unit. They always prefer some sort of engineering degree and previous flight experience from what I've been told.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:56 PM
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I put in a season teaching at Prairie Air Service in Benton (Wichita) KS, and I recommend them for foreign students in particular. They only have two or three instructors at a time so you have to plan ahead to get worked in, but among small flight schools it's tops.
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