Open Letter
07-28-2012, 08:02 AM
#11
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Opportunity cost
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
07-28-2012, 08:36 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
07-28-2012, 07:54 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: the right side
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
07-28-2012, 11:30 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,599
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
This economy has changed the game for a lot of folks.
And I have no real want to own a house... I would own property as an investment, but never a house of my own. I'm a bit of a vagabond by nature. Have been for years. So maybe thats another reason I picked this profession.
07-29-2012, 04:05 AM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.
Buy the house instead.
Skyhigh
07-29-2012, 05:22 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,978
There's nothing wrong with aviation and there are plenty of opportunities.
Everything is broken and wrong right now with being an airline pilot. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know.
Too many people think aviation=airline pilot. I do wish some of the posters would stop using the term "aviation career" to only describe being an airline pilot.
I start a new job in aviation very soon. I couldn't be happier. About 3x the pay of a regional airline pilot. I'll be able to afford flying on the side (outside of a bit of flying I get on the job). Not constantly going through security and taking off my shoes. I won't be worrying about furlough. I won't be worried about getting "stuck" as an FO, etc...
So many people set out with this "single goal" before college, and sometimes before high school, they are going to be an "airline pilot". After adjusting my goal from "astronaut" to "airline pilot", I figured that this was achievable, but being that I set my sights on it early, I tried to make all of my efforts centered towards it. With so many people doing everything they can to reach this goal, the airlines and industry can sit back and draw off of the constant/steady supply whenever necessary. No shortage, no reason to pay them a lot of money as long as their sights are set on that 777. If you REALLY know what you are doing, you can get certs and ratings on the side while you have a fairly decent job, save up a chunk of money for some ATP stuff, get a type rating, do a little corporate flying, then wait and "pounce" on the major airline job with your turbine time. There are a few ways to do something similar, but timing and luck are everything as indicated all over this site. The funny part is that with an "alternate route" you can often cut out the regional airline thing and the excessive misery, but once you are "locked in", it's hard to get out (example of circumventing: was offered a CAE position, starting off teaching ground, moving to sim, getting type, acting as FO or CA when necessary, after a year would have option of going to any partner (major) airline or big pay increase to stay at CAE). Problem is, no one is going to tell you about these things and only so many people can come in "from the sides", so once that's filled up you don't really have a choice, but no one is usually out there letting people know about these alternate routes or how to have a decent job you enjoy while doing the flying thing "semi-seriously" until a good opportunity comes along.
If we could change this one perception that aviation=being an airline pilot, I think we could make some amazing progress towards better quality of life and respect for the position. These "aviation schools" can be beneficial for these types of jobs outside of "airline pilot", but from the students, to the professors, to the instructors, to the recruiters, all that is preached is "airline pilot" and how "some day" things are going to get "really good again". So many airline pilots are out there now hoping and waiting for this to happen...
"tell me about the rabbits again george!"
Everything is broken and wrong right now with being an airline pilot. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know.
Too many people think aviation=airline pilot. I do wish some of the posters would stop using the term "aviation career" to only describe being an airline pilot.
I start a new job in aviation very soon. I couldn't be happier. About 3x the pay of a regional airline pilot. I'll be able to afford flying on the side (outside of a bit of flying I get on the job). Not constantly going through security and taking off my shoes. I won't be worrying about furlough. I won't be worried about getting "stuck" as an FO, etc...
So many people set out with this "single goal" before college, and sometimes before high school, they are going to be an "airline pilot". After adjusting my goal from "astronaut" to "airline pilot", I figured that this was achievable, but being that I set my sights on it early, I tried to make all of my efforts centered towards it. With so many people doing everything they can to reach this goal, the airlines and industry can sit back and draw off of the constant/steady supply whenever necessary. No shortage, no reason to pay them a lot of money as long as their sights are set on that 777. If you REALLY know what you are doing, you can get certs and ratings on the side while you have a fairly decent job, save up a chunk of money for some ATP stuff, get a type rating, do a little corporate flying, then wait and "pounce" on the major airline job with your turbine time. There are a few ways to do something similar, but timing and luck are everything as indicated all over this site. The funny part is that with an "alternate route" you can often cut out the regional airline thing and the excessive misery, but once you are "locked in", it's hard to get out (example of circumventing: was offered a CAE position, starting off teaching ground, moving to sim, getting type, acting as FO or CA when necessary, after a year would have option of going to any partner (major) airline or big pay increase to stay at CAE). Problem is, no one is going to tell you about these things and only so many people can come in "from the sides", so once that's filled up you don't really have a choice, but no one is usually out there letting people know about these alternate routes or how to have a decent job you enjoy while doing the flying thing "semi-seriously" until a good opportunity comes along.
If we could change this one perception that aviation=being an airline pilot, I think we could make some amazing progress towards better quality of life and respect for the position. These "aviation schools" can be beneficial for these types of jobs outside of "airline pilot", but from the students, to the professors, to the instructors, to the recruiters, all that is preached is "airline pilot" and how "some day" things are going to get "really good again". So many airline pilots are out there now hoping and waiting for this to happen...
"tell me about the rabbits again george!"
Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 07-29-2012 at 05:42 AM.
07-29-2012, 01:58 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
I mean... I'm not making it up. So you can believe what you want. Just sharing my experiences.
I've been in contact with about 20 different companies. From sky-diving, to aerial survey, and everything in between.
I've been in contact with about 20 different companies. From sky-diving, to aerial survey, and everything in between.
07-30-2012, 07:39 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,599
Originally Posted by Learflyer
Maybe at this beginning level of aviation jobs it may be the case. But at an airline, fractional, or corporate gig interview, it will NOT be brought up. If so you should laugh and walk away. EXPERIENCE is what everyone is looking for.
I'm willing to relocate, still can't find anything. Hopefully I can shake up something in a couple of weeks when I finish my CFI and the survey companies start hiring for the season.
07-30-2012, 10:07 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: I pilot
Posts: 2,049
You guys think it's bad? You should come to Europe. Some guys are willing to spend 120,000 GBP ($190,000) for pilot training and it doesn't even include a University degree. Then, they expect to get a job flying a Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 straight out of school (which some do), but a significant percentage don't find anything. I hear guys say that they don't want to fly a turboprop, have no interest in instructing, they would "settle" to fly a cargo plane as long as it had two jets...
I'm serious. A friend of mine was unsuccessful at two interviews (250 hours total time, one interview was for a 737 operator, the other flying single engine turboprops in the bush). His plan is to go back to the family business and save up for a type rating, and possibly pay for time on type. Lots of guys go back to their old jobs and then keep sending out résumés hoping that someone will bite. Some days, I wonder what I am doing here as far as trying to progress a flying career.
I'm serious. A friend of mine was unsuccessful at two interviews (250 hours total time, one interview was for a 737 operator, the other flying single engine turboprops in the bush). His plan is to go back to the family business and save up for a type rating, and possibly pay for time on type. Lots of guys go back to their old jobs and then keep sending out résumés hoping that someone will bite. Some days, I wonder what I am doing here as far as trying to progress a flying career.
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