Son interested in being a pilot
 

Hello everyone, firstly Im not a pilot and know relatively little about planes but I have a 13 year son that loves planes and aviation. He flies remote control planes and is now going to race pylon racers and messes with the flight simulator that I bought for him on the home computer trying to learn to put flight plans together and how to navigate between airports.

He is a very smart kid. I tell him that if he likes planes maybe he should be a pilot. He signed up with the local civil air patrol group last week. He went to his grandparents house that live by the airforce academy but it had been evacuated because of fires because he is interested in that, so maybe next year. I dont have alot of money so probably the government is going to help him learn how, which according to my friend that is a surgeon is exactly the right thing to do.

The university where I work has a flight training school, but I dont really know that much about it.

Since i guess most of you are pilots what do you think I should tell him? Should I push him towards another profession?

I like that he likes it because he is learning so much. but what does the future appear to look like?

The future of aviation
 

The future of aviation is a favorite topic here. Boeing just produced an article that predicts a huge growth period over the next 20-30 years. The issue however is that pilot wages and working conditions are on the decline.

In my opinion the advance of automation insures that working conditions for pilots will not improve. Other factors are on the horizon that could also be a game changer. China is working to position itself as a global aviation supplier of pilots, mechanics and airliners.

The world of aviation will be very different in 10 years. However there are a lot of jobs in aviation besides flying. UAV's are very hot right now and most likely will be in the future.

I also have a teen age son who is interested in aviation and I don't know what to do.


Skyhigh

He can get 'free' flying exposure (and perhaps a few lessons) through the CAP, so that's a good place to start, and if his high school has an ROTC program, there's more free flying there. Take him back to Sky Blue U (the Air Force Academy) this fall, about a month after the start (ie. October) and get him a tour, that may light a spark in him...or not.

As far as, is it going to be a good career for him? Well, on the military side of the career, perhaps. If he deciedes he wants to fly in the miltary, that will be free flying lessons and a pretty stable career, compared to trying to build time in the RJ world.

But...he's only 13 now, 5 years from now he'll be 18, and the comercial industry will have changed by then, ie. it will be better, or worse, than it is today, but it won't be the same. One thing in his favor, in the next 10-20 years (when he's 23-33) the Majors will be losing thousands of pilots, hired in the 1985-1995 eara, who will -age out- and be retiring, so there should be some demand for new pilots...maybe...if;

Cabotage doesn't become the law in the US,

And if the mandatory retirement age doesn't get lifted to...?

And if any of today's Majors are still in business, etc.

Nobody has a crystal ball, nobody knows what the future holds in this industry for next year, let alone 10-30 years from now (your son's time frame) but getting free flying lessons via the ROTC and a free education via the AFA is never a bad thing, and he can fly in the Air Force or even the Navy (not that there's anything wrong with that) for a full 20+ year career, and still be young enough to get out and then get hired on at a US Major, if they still exist 30 years from now.

Oh, I almost forgot, the Air Force now has drone flying training program, so your kid could fly drones over Pakistan, from a trailer in Las Vegas.

You let him know how you feel.....then you allow them to make their own decisions...good and bad...... IF you DECIDE he cannot pursue aviation and enforce that decision as long as able... you will regret it.

Thats not to say you shouldn't let him know how you feel.

While you must be 16 to solo an airplane, and 17 to license, you only need to be 14 to solo a glider, and 16 for pilot certificate...can add airplane later. A great way to get into aviation and learn to "fly a wing" without the distraction of that noisy fire hazard bolted to the aircraft(engine).
see:
Soaring Society of America, the source for Gliding in the USA

click on "where to fly" to find out if there is a soaring operation
near you.

It is pure fun recreation, with the advantage that if he decides aviation is for him, he'll already have a leg up on the process, and if not, he'll have a great off-work pastime.....

This made me laugh. Thank you.

An aviation career does not make a lot of sense these days for most people.

If one pursues a career, it must be based on a love of all things aviation...that will soften some of the sharp edges. With the proliferation of fast-track "glossy-brochure" flight academies too many younf people (and not-so-young) jump into aviation expecting big (or at least decent) money and a great quality of life...in reality it takes 15-20 years to get those, if ever.

I would suggest...

Pursue every educational opportunity such as CAP, etc.

Before even considering a career, earn a Private Pilot cert and do some fun flying. If you still like it at 100 hours, earn an instrument rating. Only then consider professional flying.

If you decide to go pro, look hard at the military...Air National Guard (followed by USAF reserve) is the best kept secret in military aviation, start there if flying is your thing. If that doesn't pan out, look at active duty military. He'll need a degree either way, scholarships are available too.

If he goes down the civilian path, I would recommend NOT majoring in aviation (unless it is aerospace engineering). There are many good reasons for this, but aviation is fickle and it's best to have a fall-back position. Since aviation is your "fulfillment", you don't get to major in underwater basket weaving or fill-in-the-blank studies. Select a major which is marketable if aviation falls through...I figure most pilots will spend 3-10 years on the street due to medical, furlough, Ch.7, etc. Even if you land a job right way, in airline aviation you start all over at the bottom with a new company, could be an 80% pay cut. Suitable majors are portable, marketable, and can be kept warm on the back-burner through part-time work (computer programming, accounting, pharmacy, PA, etc)

For flight training, there may in the future be some benefit to doing an university aviation program (like I just told you not to do). This is due to possible regulatory changes related to airline pilot employment. You'll have to keep this in mind and research things when the time comes to pick a college. But as of right now the best bet is train at a good (do your homework) local flight school. Avoid large loans...you will not be able to pay them back on $10-20K entry-level pilot wages.

Again, all the best civilian jobs go to ex-military pilots first, and they got paid a living wage while NOT paying for their own training. But you will probably want to be a fixed-wing pilot, not a helo or God-forbid UAV pilot. Air National Guard, USAF Reserve are the only way to guarantee that.

Be supportive and get him involved in CAP and AFJROTC. The military is the best option. I was the same way and did CAP & ROTC and met a lot of people in aviation. I wanted to go to the USAF but wearing glasses stopped me. My parents couldn't afford flight training so I took it upon myself and enlisted in the military. I did my time and got out allowing me to utilize my GI bill towards flying and college. My point being do not discourage him. He will understand if u can not financially fund his endeavors. If he wants it badly enough he will find his own path to reach his goals. Just be there for him as a loving father.

good for him... you should definitely encourage it. I would however recommend that you do a little bit of reading on here and tell him to do the same.

If he is showing a serious interest in it 6 months from now, encourage him to look into the Air Force or Naval Academies. He will have to really start focusing on his grades in high school and playing a sport also helps out (anything extra-curricular is good though ie: flying). My buddy is now flying F-16's and he just turned 24. He went to the AF academy and all of his training was paid for. He has a fulfilling/stable career as a military aviator to look forward to and a "foot in the door" when he decides to get out or retire and go civilian. It is the best way to go these days.

Have him get a degree or trade skill in something non aviation related. No jobs ever require an aviation specific degree, they just want a college degree (if any). Majoring in something other than aviation will give him a fall back career.

How does the career look? Supposedly there is a pilot shortage coming. China, Indonesia, and India are just beginning their aviation booms. The shortage will hit those places first. There are a lot of upcoming retirements at the US airlines which will create lots of demand for pilots. However if oil jumps back to $150/bbl, I don't think the shortage will appear as airlines will begin parking aircraft, and lose money (again, 2008-10 all over again).

If he is going to learn a foreign language make sure its Mandarin Chinese.

See my post in the "Open Letter" thread. Too much of time time we thing aviation=airline pilot. This is why there is no shortage of pilots and why it's a "buyers market" for the airlines as far as pilots. There are so many ways to be in aviation and experience it, and we shoot ourselves in the foot when we limit it to one thing. Being a pilot is awesome, there's nothing like it. That doesn't mean I have to be an airline pilot, or transport pilot, or military pilot, or any one of these specialties. Being a pilot is a general thing.

thanks you guys i have learned alot. if you can think of anything else i would appreciate it.

So if we were to make a list of important things to do in the next few years:

-Dont plan on major in aviation unless its aerospace engineering, have a back up in something else
-stay in the CAP program and try to find out if they AFROTC at his HS
-doing it through the military or reserve is a good way to do it if ends up being what he wants to do.
-have him work on his private pilots license. Im hoping the the CAP program can get us some contacts on this.

I like the CAP program, its seems to be a pretty good deal. He has only been involved for a couple months so far. Have all of you that have been involved in this program feel it was time well spent?

Thanks

www.thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com

Saves me a lot of typing :)

+10! JNB you hit it right on the money.

A guy can fly for fun and during a lifetime can explore many different aspects: soaring, aerobatics, taildraggers, racing, floats, fixed wing, rotary wing, etc. And a guy can fly for a living and explore many different aspects: military, passenger, cargo, dusting, floats, wheels, bush, guiding, instructing, corporate, fractionals, ferrying, surveying, patroling, etc. There are lots and lots of ways to scratch the flying itch. There are folks who find tremendous satisfaction in all of these areas, and some even make a very good living at it. But what's right for one person isn't necessarily right for another, so you want your child to know that aviation has myriad aspects.

Whatever you do, don't PUSH (your term) your child toward aviation. The passion needs to come from within.

I was a CAP cadet and now my daughter is. It can be a great and worthwhile experience or a complete waste of time depending on the local squadron. It's like the boy scouts; its only as good as the local volunteers running it. It is also what you put into it. Take advantage of the orientation flights (all 10), glider camps, powered camps, cheap flight training, etc.

Also check out the young eagle program from the EAA. They give free rides for kids. It's just another way to get up in the air.

I offered to teach any CAP cadet to fly for free IF they pass the written and the medical. None took me up on it.

You should make a few more posts so you can send and receive private messages.

Maybe I missed it, have you taken any flying lessons yourself? Have you seen the TV program "Flying Cheap" or Chesley Sullenberger's testimony before Congress on the state of the profession? If not, I think that all can be found on youtube.

Definitely not all bad in the industry either. Maybe you read my rants in the "Open Letter" thread below. I'm frustrated that the truth about the profession (see what I did there?) is often NOT forthcoming-especially from the flight schools looking to make a sale!

If you'd like to chat offline (via phone), I'd be happy to talk. Send me an email at my screenname @ hotmail.com.

I did the degree track (UND), paid for school in the national guard, flight instructed, flew at a regional airline, and now fly corporate for a fortune 50 company. I've also been heavily involved in the Civil Air Patrol at many different levels.

Josh

And all the glider flight time counts toward the 1500 hour total time requirement for an ATP certificate.

These are the two most important things. Number one is the major. I can't stress this enough... get a degree in something outside of aviation (unless aerospace engineering).

Glider flying is the best way to get an early handle on good stick and rudder skills (basic flying skills). You can fly gliders at an earlier age than airplanes. Get your son to your local glider club and get him started, he'll develop a great set of flying fundamentals, learn a lot about aviation and when it comes time to do his private pilot's license, it'll take him less time (think less money) because he already knows the basics.

Flying fundamentals
 

+1

YES! Thank you. $200/hour for a G100 C172 and instructor, based out of a controlled airport with a stretched out touch and go pattern is an expensive way to earn a first solo.

Spot on.

For the military, it is of course not simply another means of obtaining flight training...it is a serious commitment involving more than just flying and about ten years of your life (after college). I bring that up because wannabe pilots often have the aptitude for military service. But he needs to make sure that's doing that for the right reasons.

If you're pretty sure about the military, the next decision is active duty vs. guard/reserves.

The AD vs. guard vs. OCS/OTS has a couple tradeoffs...

Acemdy/ROTC. You can get college paid for with an ROTC (or service academy) scholarship but that will commit you to approx five years AD even if you don't get a flight slot. Even if you do get a flight slot, you might still end up in helos or UAVs.

OCS/OTS. Do college on you own (and pay for it) and then apply for a flight slot. Advantage is that you don't have to accept if they don't offer a flight slot. Disadvantages are that opportunities are limited for this route, priority goes to Academy/ROTC grads. Again, you might still end up in helos or UAVs.

Guard/Reserve. Do college on you own, then apply to guard/reserve units. This way you know exactly what you'll be flying (whatever that unit flys) and after about 2 years active-duty for training you can go part-time and progress your civilian career in parallel. This may be the best-kept secret in military aviation but it is competitive.

High School ROTC may not be the best path to a commission/scholarship. You need good grades (in challenging subjects and AP), athletic participation, and good test scores. If you still have time for HS ROTC after all that, fine. The guys who focus on HS ROTC usually end up enlisting.

If I had it to do over again...(wouldn't that be nice:-))

Apply to service academies (AF/Navy probably gives you a better chance of flying, WestPoint seems to set males toward the Infantry/Armor/Field Artillery track, although they do send some people to Flight School).

If that opportunity does not materialize, enlist in the Air Guard/AF Reserve at 18. Get into maintenance or something else where I would have interaction with Flight Crews. Use the GI Bill to go to a good college and get a degree in something OTHER than aviation (although as some have said, aerospace engineering is a good field.) Shell out the money for a Private Pilots license on the side.

After college, use the network established in the Guard/Reserve unit to apply for a flight slot. If all works out, the military pays for all your ratings (except PPL), and a college degree.

PM me if you have more questions

As someone who has never had a real childhood passion for flying/aviation... I would consider having him getting his pvt pilot license and then go from there, don't try to plan too far ahead... I started my flying career at 23 ( im now 25, student pilot ).

IMO, I see people who are passionate about flying since they were 6 years old have a harder time staying in this industry when first starting out. In some people with this passion,their work and personal life is almost mixed together, and when times in the flight industry suck, their whole life sucks and they are miserable. I'm not saying this is a bad thing to have but it can be expected. I have also had conversations with airline hire managers where they are looking for more well rounded people who have a life outside of just loving to fly.

Most people in their life will have 7 career changes ( statistically, but I see more around 3 ). I would make sure he is fully interested in aviation, because having a career change during his training will be a huge economic and emotional expense, esp if he goes the mill route early...then hes really screwed.

I would suggest the military for flight training because of expenses, however you may deal with military budget cuts in the future esp with guard units, thats also another thing to consider.

If you go the civil route, your risking a lot of your income for this adventure... but it pays off in the long term esp with the pilot shortage coming. Big airlines are looking for solutions to find new pilots...Ive heard of airlines thinking of doing 12 year contracts with the company and they pay for your flight training ( that's what they are looking for solutions, doesn't mean its going to be remotely true... but a possibility none the less.

Either way you go just make sure hes committed, that's the biggest challenge I believe. There will be times where he will be tested on it. Its an exciting field to be in. Hope this helps.


PS it doesn't matter what degree he gets, even if its aeronautical...that bs excuse will not suffice once the pilot shortage happens. Job security will be a thing of the past.

I agree
 

I agree however I would feel so guilty if my children's exposure to aviation came from me. Yet my father, grand father, brother and father-in-law are (or were) all pilots. It seems to be in the blood.

It does not make things easy.

Skyhigh

Make sure you put that in qoutation marks, or with LOL right next to it. I remember reading an article from about 1991 that said we were on the cusp of such a serious pilot shortage that the airlines would only be able to fly a few routes. :rolleyes: How'd that work out?

Delta's new agreement is reducing the number of required pilots (between mainline and regional feed.) I'm sure the others will follow....

We are possibly moving from a period of an over-abundance of pilots to either an abundance of pilots, or an appropriate amount of pilots. Appropriate amount does not equal shortage. Let's get some truth out there--the future generation of pilots deserves that.

P.S. That glider flying idea is great! I agree whole heartedly!

In the 60's, airlines were advertising for pilots in Flying magazine, the shortage ended in about 1965. There won't be one, but the end of the RJ boom may make normal feel like a shortage.

GF

I was in a similar situation as your son 7 years ago, around 13 years old and very interested in pursuing aviation as a career. My parents knew very little about aviation but were against my decision to start flying; they wanted me to go to med school. Usually I would listen to almost anything my parents said but the flying itch was too strong. I did not pursue the career that they had planned out for me and I must say going against my parents was tough but I wanted to give flying a shot.
Using the money that I had been saving from working the ramp I decided to do my private license at age 17 (no help/funding from my parents). After reading threads on this site it helped change my decision (was going to do the "zero to hero" program). To have a better QOL further down the road I learned that being debt free makes a huge difference. Obtaining my ratings has taken me longer than someone who used bank loans to assist them. I feel that working and paying for your own hours is a great way (other than the military) to train and can also test your flying passion.
I admire that you want your son to find his own career and hopefully something that he will love to do for the rest of his life.

BTW this is coming from a Canadian; things are a bit different up here regarding jobs. I can't say much about the future of aviation or anything regarding airlines since I am still new to the profession.

10 years from now I guess I will find out if I should have listened to my parents or not:D

You have been exposed to almost all the negatives on this website, and although as a parent is is your responsibility to look out for your kids, avoid telling your son outright that he shouldn't become a pilot...when my parents told this to me it was very disheartening, and I wouldn't want your son to feel the same way.

I obviously don't expect to make 6-figures right out of the gate (if at all in my career) but there still happens to be a "career" in flying, right? I fly because I have a passion for it. Money doesn't make the world go round but it sure helps. I'd like to be make a comfortable living (i.e. own a house, raise a few kids and send them to college) but I'm not expecting to drive a Ferrari around town.

Some of these posts I read make it seem like the entire aviation field is going down the toilet. Is it? Or are some just upset that they won't be topping out at 100k+/year anymore?

Professionals, whether you're a physician or an attorney or a physical therapist or a pilot, make a substantial investment in education, time, and training to attain their vocation. In exchange for that great monetary expense and the dedication required to attain the status of a "professional," it is expected that there will be some sort of pay back in the future, usually in terms of monetary compensation and the ability to make a good living in general at the chosen profession. Now obviously that is not guaranteed, but in my opinion there is a reasonable expectation that for most professionals, these previously mentioned goals will be attained.

We as pilots, some of us many years ago, made the great monetary and personal sacrifices of becoming professional pilots, with the expectation that the fruits of these labors would lead to a good career in the future. And at the time we made these sacrifices, the possibility was there.

However, between the bankruptcies, the stolen pensions, the outsourcing, the significant pay cuts, etc., etc., the chance that MOST pilot professionals could enjoy the fruits of their labors was taken away. That's why guys are mad. That's why you see lots of negative posts about this profession. Many of us made the required commitments to the profession, but the anticipated career expectations were taken away. It's not a matter of "wanting to drive a Ferrari" around town. It's a matter of expecting a return on the GREAT financial and personal sacrifice needed to become a professional airline pilot. For too many, that return hasn't been there.

To answer your other question about the profession going down the toilet.....Who knows what the future holds. Maybe the great pilot shortage begins tomorrow. Maybe oil spikes to $150/barrel again (or higher) and we're looking at yet another round of airline downsizing.

On my little website, a pilot posted something that made me think. Airline pilots may be becoming the U.S. factory worker of the 60's and 70's. Back then, working the floor of an auto factory, for example, was a CAREER position. Now, of course, not so much. Airline management would like NOTHING MORE than to outsource every U.S. major airline pilot job to the cheapest bidder, whether that is a $80,000/year 737 co-pilot job to a $22,000/year Mesa co-pilot job, or a $180,000 U.S. 777 Captain to a $??,???/year Chinese 777 Captain. That domestic outsourcing is happening RIGHT NOW. American Airlines want E-190 (i.e. a narrowbody 100 passenger aircraft) to be flown by its regional subsidiaries and a bankruptcy judge may give them what they want despite their pilots' objections. United Airlines wants their pilots, currently in contract negotiations, to relax their "scope" so larger jets can be flown by their regional airlines. Comair just got shut down because their senior pilot force is too expensive compared to alter-ego regionals like GoJets. In the past 10 years, we've seen nothing but relaxation of scope at the majors, either willingly through contract negotiations or unwillingly under the gavel of a bankruptcy judge. Does that pattern continue or will it be put to a stop? I suspect the latter. Do you want to go into significant debt where the best the "average" professional pilot can do is a job at a regional airline that gets whipsawed against the next reincarnation of GoJets or Freedom (Mesa)?

Those are the questions you have to answer for yourself. If you really are passionate about flying, go for it. If you "sort of" like aviation, you might want to consider other professions.

Study hard, go to Medical School, become a physician, fly for recreation.

Thanks for the detailed response.

I see that pursuing a career in the airline industry is quite the gamble. Was it not the same back in the day?

From the handful of pilots I do know (most in their 40's) they said when they started out they had aspirations of going to the Majors and using Regionals as a stepping stone. Now they say that moving up isn't worth it and would rather keep their left seat within a Regional. Does this seem to be a trend?

And as for the Ferrari tidbit in there, twas just a joke.

If you were in my shoes, with the knowledge you have today about the airline industry... do you believe you would make the same career choice?

Thanks again.

If the "day" you refer to was 30+ years ago, there was a different gamble. Instead of stagnating in a low-paying job, the risk was not getting a job at all or losing it a few years later. Majors hired almost exclusively ex-military guys, and there were thousands of such applicants from the Viet Nam era. Deregulation wiped out many legacy jobs, but if you got and kept one, it paid very well.

I would do the same: become a military pilot, plan on staying for a career, and when my commitment was up, take a look at the airlines.
If you can get a military academy appointment, ROTC scholarship, or Guard/Reserve UPT slot, so much the better. Good Luck! :)