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Old 09-17-2012, 08:50 AM   #1  
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Default Fellow CFI's questions about logging time

I just have a couple questions about what should go in the logbook as dual given.

Do most of you log your ground in your logbook as dual given?

Can you use the Sim time dual given towards ATP mins? or do I need to have another CFI there while I am using the sim to sign my logbook to count that?

Thanks in Advance.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:34 PM   #2  
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Default Fellow CFI's questions about logging time

I only logged dual given as actual instruction in the airplane. Ground lessons and sim time I never logged in my log book. No it does not count towards your ATP.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:56 PM   #3  
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I only log dual given when I am in the airplane
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #4  
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Sim instruction given is NOT "Dual Given". It is not anything at all.

But you can log it in one of your blank columns if you like; it might help you get a sim instructor or 141 job someday.

But don't ever confuse anything sim with flight time or total time in a real airplane. In some cases you can apply sim time towards certs or ratings, but you do that on the 8710...do NOT do it in your logbook. Trust me, you will be creating a confusing mess that will bite you in the butt when you apply for turbine jobs.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:03 PM   #5  
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thanks guys, I was expecting a different answer, at least about the dual given time. i realize flight time is flight time, but dual given, i thought was any instruction given.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:05 PM   #6  
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So what are you going to use for the registration number for ground training, the street address?

61.159 addresses the requirements for an ATP, including crediting sim time towards the 75 hours of instrument time and 1500 hours total time. It's pitiful when a CFI is unable to read the FARs. The only thing sim instructor time counts for is payroll.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:08 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
So what are you going to use for the registration number for ground training, the street address?

61.159 addresses the requirements for an ATP, including crediting sim time towards the 75 hours of instrument time and 1500 hours total time. It's pitiful when a CFI is unable to read the FARs. The only thing sim instructor time counts for is payroll.

^^^^^ what he said.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:15 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerjon7 View Post
thanks guys, I was expecting a different answer, at least about the dual given time. i realize flight time is flight time, but dual given, i thought was any instruction given.
There are multiple ways that support the current interpretation of it being flight time. There's the 8hr rule, the rule about dual received (must be flight time, not sim time, unless in an actual simulator and not an FTD), being labeled as "aeronautical experience" in certificate/rating appendices of part 61/141, and so on.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:04 AM   #9  
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There's no FAA requirement to log "dual given" at all, so the choice is more a matter of convention than regulation. It's more a matter of what you plan to use it for.

If you are using "dual given" as a shorthand for "flight training given," the FAR defines that as in an aircraft. That the way most log it since it also counts as loggable "flight time."

Some include training in a simulator since it technically counts as "pilot time." I haven't heard of it being done but some might use a looser definition of "dual given" to include all "training time" whether flight training or not.

Since the FAA doesn't ask you to track it it doesn't matter that much.... except I can't imagine a use for it where you wouldn't want to break it down into its' ground, air, and simulator components.

btw, you can use dual given in a sim for one ATP requirement. 61.159(a) refers to "at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot." "Pilot time" does include training given in a simulator. Problem is that all of the subcategories of the ATP requirements involve "flight time." If you meet those requirements, it's unlikely that you will also need a few excess hours of non-flight "pilot time."

(All the definitions I mention are in FAR 1.1 and 61.1)
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:00 AM   #10  
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So what are you going to use for the registration number for ground training, the street address?

61.159 addresses the requirements for an ATP, including crediting sim time towards the 75 hours of instrument time and 1500 hours total time. It's pitiful when a CFI is unable to read the FARs. The only thing sim instructor time counts for is payroll.

It is pitiful that people have to put people down for asking a simple question on a forum board. Let me guess, you never asked a question on here that you could of looked up yourself? How about looking for clarification for something you just weren't sure about?



Thanks to everyone else that clarified a question I had without insulting. I was mostly concerned about this when applying for jobs, I did not want to put anything innacurate on my resume.
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