CFI at ERAU or CFI back home at FBO
 

Hey guys, sorry to put this topic here, but I didn't know where else to put it. I'm currently working on my Instrument Rating and thinking about my future after my Commercial Multi and Single. My question is, do you think I should stay at Riddle and CFI or go back home and CFI at a local FBO? Getting my MEI at Riddle would have to wait until I have 250 hours of dual given in the airplane only. How fast can you get an MEI at an FBO? I know how much we fly up here which is keeping my decision firm at staying at Riddle. The medical benefits are also quite appealing. What do you guys think?

Stay at Riddle..Get you MBA while there as a CFI.

Don't spend / waste too much time at the CFI level. Just get your time and move on to the regionals...

-LAFF

I was thinking of CFI'ing for 4 years at the most. I have my eyes on Ameriflight after that. Not so sure about my MBA, but I got time to think about that.

Wouldnt this topic be beter in the Flight Training forum. I say stay at Riddle.

4 years is a long time to be a CFI, especially these days. I would guess if you stay at Riddle and instruct you will not be there longer then 1.5 yrs.

I say no more than 4 because the CFI's upgrade to MEI after 250 hours dual given in the single engine, airplane time only. Since we're now a 141 school, we can use sims more often. My instructor was hired in August, fresh out of graduating Riddle, he only has 75 hours of dual given. I think 250 will take a little time to accomplish.

What do you mean by "now a 141 school"? Did Riddle loose their 141 status at some point.

Sim time counts for nothing except sim time...so don’t log it as total time.

Personally, I would recommend doing your CFI somewhere other than Riddle. A 141 instructor course is way too long and of course they manage to Riddle-ize it. Find a flight school that you might like to teach at and do your CFI there. That way you get your foot in the door and now you’re a known quantity to them.

Not to mention the fact that the commuter mins are going to stay low for the next few years. So those bridge programs are pretty much worthless for now.

I got my MEI in less than 1 week. MEI is possibly the easiest checkride you'll ever take.

I still think a 250-500 hr pilot has no business flying a passenger airplane

Thedude, what I mean when I say, "now a 141 school," Riddle used to operate under part 142. We now got moved to part 141 which allows us to use FTDs a little more instead of flying. I have never logged sim time as total. I think I'll graduate with something around 300/70. Then 250 more for dual given, after the MEI, probably 100-150 more. So hopefully I can start looking around with 700/220.

You were always a 141 school. That's doesn't do anything with FTD's. 141 is the approved flying syllabus established by the school and written off by the FAA

My bad for mixing that up. That's just what I was told by the Chair of the Flight Dept.

I think you may be a little confused. Riddle has been a part 141 school for as long as I can remember and was when I graduated in '93.
A part 142 school is a training center. Mainly like FlightSafety, Simulflite etc. they usually do training for type ratings or are contracted out to do airline training.
I think the 142 school may have come about when the B-737 and B-1900 sim showed up on campus but I dont think Riddle had much to do with them other than they where on Riddle property. My understanding was they actually were owned and operated by FlightSaftey. And back in the fall of 2000 they had not reached the certification to do type ratings.
Glad to see Riddle has finally seen the value of mutli time. When I graduated I had a whopping 7 hrs multi and that included the checkride.

Currently I have like 105/15, by the time I finish my instrument course, I should have 140/50. I don't know what the minimums are for the commercial multi/single, and CFI but I'm guessing it should put me around 300/70. I hate how the single engine portion has you in the sim as much as the airplane. In the multi part though, we get more airplane time than sim. With the 142 mix up, I know the PRC campus is not. We have an A320 sim, but no type rating. I'm not 100% sure, but I think DAB has type rating training for the 1900. Any Riddle students out there, help me out.

I'd go back home if I were you. Between rent and student loan payments starting up six months after graduating, life could get pretty miserable.
At the very least, get your CFI tickets somewhere other than ERAU. They charge around $13K for CFI and CFI-I. I wouldn't even remotely consider the 1900 type, or anything to do with monkeying around in the A320 sim.
The #1 advantage to instructing at ERAU is a steady flow of students. No waiting around like a used car salesman for new victims at some run-down FBO. Have you asked any instructors there how many hours they average in a month?
#2 is the tuition waiver available to full-time employees. This waiver allows you to take 6 courses per year (2 per term).
Whether or not their MBA is worth anything is another matter...

OK...Riddle is now a 142 Training Center. All that means is that they can use the FAA approved Level-6 training devices for flight training. Not much changes because of this, except that it is scary as hell soloing students with something like 8 hours flight time and 10 hours in a simulator! The DAB campus does not have a 1900 sim, nor do we offer any type ratings. We currently have a Level-6 CRJ-200 sim, and the only thing I have noticed that will do for you is knock down (significantly) the minimums for some regional carriers. As far as instructing at Riddle...it can't be beat. I never have to find my own students and never do I go without a full day's work. If I have a student doing a solo, or maybe sick, then all I have to do is tell my boss and an hour later that hole in my schedule is filled. In regards to the issue you seem to be having with getting the multi upgrade: flight time and sim time may both be logged as dual given. This is not flight time or total time, but it is dual given, so your hours do add up quickly. So IMO, stay and instruct at Riddle. I even started part time when I was a junior, and you can't beat the guarnteed spot as a full time employee when you graduate. Hope this helps clear some things up for you, and good luck withh all your training.

~Matt

That makes absoulty no sense. How do your hours add up quickly if it does not relate to total time. TT is what everbody is interested in not dual given or dual received. Sim time is sim time and is good only to meet currency reqirements and should only be logged only in the sim coulum.

"In regards to the issue you seem to be having with getting the multi upgrade: ..."

I think you need to freshen up on your FAR's as far as logging dual recieved and dual given. It does not only apply to the airplane! I wasn't talking about getting the hours to go to an airline. The time that most CFI employers base upgrades on is dual given, and this is true for ERAU, so he would be able to get his Multi-upgrade soon.

ERAU IP406, that helps a lot! Thanks for the input. I only asked about going to an FBO if the MEI is easier to get. Other than that, I know the steady student flow. Now that I know sim can also count towards dual given will influence my decision a lot. Thanks again.

ME thinks you have been sucking on the Riddle bong a little to long. Addmittly I haven't had a CFI in about 10 yrs but I do know that sim time is pretty much worthless. At my first CFI job, the main 2 question were how much TT do you have and how much dual given and that was at one of the bigger pilot factories in south FL. When you go to get a real job, some airlines/operators will make you break out dual given and in some cases even subtract that from you TT and/or PIC time. Knowing how some of the Riddle-isms work, teaching in larger aircraft is usually dictated by the insurance compaines but then again Riddle is a different world. And that being part of the reason I would not encourage anyone to instruct at Riddle that graduated form there. Most of the guys have ZERO real world experience other than Riddle and that tends to work against them when moving on.

Please dont call it upgrade when moving from one type of a/c to another, that is a term used when upgrading from one seat to another such a f/o to capt. Its usually called transition but I am not sure that even relates to the CFI world.

Thedude, he's not talking about logging sim time as TT. He's telling me that I can use sim time as dual given to log into building time for the MEI. Riddle lets us log sim time as TT, but not many people do it, including myself.

No problem bud...good luck with the flying.

I will have to 100% agree with you here. I work with too many people that have only ever flown at Riddle. And the problem you deal with having only flown in FL is the fact that you have no cold-weather ops nor do you have any mountain flying experience. But we sure know our t-storms!

I don't know what you want, but that's what we call it here.

"He's telling me that I can use sim time as dual given to log into building time for the MEI"

Can you say that a different way? I'm not getting it.

"Riddle lets us log sim time as TT"

That will get anybody who does it in trouble, sooner or later. TT, in the industry (that would be outside of Riddle) assumes TT to be total flight time. You start putting sim time in that column and you're taking a big risk. What if somebody notices it during an interview? Saying "Well, Riddle said I could do it" is guaranteed to get you a boot in the pants and to rightfully get laughed out of the interview. I know that's what I'd do.

You got the two reversed. A 142 approved curriculum allows the credit of more FTD time for a rating. Its supposed to help defray the cost of training as well, but most sims are pretty comparable in price to the airplane. Having to wait to get 250 dual to fly a twin in the right seat is ridiculous. That sounds like internal control to keep the operating cost down (hence pilot salaries)

What I mean is that I can log sim time as a CFI in the dual given column, not TT, towards upgrading to my MEI while instructing at ERAU. Riddle has a way for us to log sim, but I haven't read it since I don't care to log sim time as TT.

CFI is all right seat commercial maneuvers and your ability to get the oral. Do it at an FBO so you save a ton of cash.

I don't know a whole lot about 141 courses, but if you do your commercial at a part 61 school, 50 hours of FTD time can be credited towards the 250 hours needed for the certificate. However, this does NOT get counted as total time.

You can't log the sim as TT. You can only put it under Dual Given if you are the instructor. That's the only column it applies to.

The school will pay to get your uniform dry cleaned. Need I say more?? :)

ERADUDE, just because you have gotten all your licenses and ratings at Riddle doesn't mean you will be GTD that CFI job. They do have some test you have to take and show your interpersonal skills. Good luck to you.

I agree with most, get your CFI else where and come back and apply for that CFI job at Riddle.

Oh one more thing .... the flight line looks awesome ... I'm a '04 Grad and got a chance to see it this past Homecoming and it looks badA$$. I'm sure the new building is going to look great.

Are you talking about the DAB campus?

Yea the DAB campus

Oh ok, haha, we don't have a new building at the flightline here at PRC.

Stay at Riddle. The CFI course there cost me $5,500 about 6 years ago and another $800 to do my CFII Part 61. I'm not sure if they've got that option anymore, but I had a friend who was a CFII there hook me up by letting me sit in on his student's sim lessons and he had me teach them instruments while he watched over my shoulder. A few flights later and I was ready for the DE ride. I can't see it costing $13,000 unless the course has changed drastically since I've been there or you're an idiot and get X-T'd 40 times during the course (and then you probably shouldn't be in an airplane with a student anyway).

The reason I say stay at Riddle is because I've been there and done it, quit a "local FBO" 3 weeks after working there and decided to move my arse 1,100 miles back to DAB for another 2 years to instruct there. Why? Because in the 3 weeks I was at that FBO, I spent about 15 hours in an actual airplane teaching and probably another 120 hours sitting around doing nothing. Yes, on nice bright and sunny Sunday mornings/afternoons, I was standing around kicking rocks with about 4 other CFI's because the place had very little work. You don't want to have to deal with that stuff unless you can find an FBO that actually gets a lot of business. Riddle is a pilot factory. The students are already there and you don't have to play car salesman to put food on the table. When I got hired at Riddle, I was handed the 8 training folders of new students and was told, "Get'r done!". I made over $20k my first year there, including a slow summer and my second year I was on my way to making over $25k if I had stayed.

Their hourly salary is about $2 more an hour today than it was 5 years ago, so you'll make even more (if you like to work your rearend off). It was not uncommon to work 10-12 hour days there, 5-6 days a week (they required one day off a week and your days off rotated every month). On average, I was flying about 100-120 hours a month during the main school year (Sep-Apr). You'll also get full benefits (health, dental, life, 401k, tuition assistance). I can't remember, but I think benefits were only about $50 a month (health insurance in FL is cheap!). Do you think you're going to get those benefits at an FBO?? 10 to 1, you will not. The FBO I worked for gave me a $75 a week base salary. This meant that if I didn't work a single hour, I'd get a $75 check every week. Sounds great, but to the owner, that meant that you were required to be there from 8-5pm everyday whether you had something scheduled or not. So essentially, you were making about $1.75 an hour. Lets not even get into the POS airplanes and shadey maintenance you'll deal with. When you're getting paid $15 an hour to risk your life teaching in an aircraft, it's not worth compounding that risk flying a POS airplane. Riddle had/still has brand new aircraft and their maintenance program is top knotch. Everyone knocks them for being too expensive, but they do not fool around with maintenance. They run a tight operation. You can't say that about a lot of FBO's.

I'm not knocking every FBO out there, but working at the FBO I was at left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when the owner expected me to fly an airplane with an illegally installed GPS that was nowhere to be found in the forms/weight and balance (he wasn't even a pilot). I told him I wasn't going to do it and he told me that he'd find an instructor that would (that was the last time he saw me).

As for "real world" flying. You're at Prescott, so you'll get all the great mountain flying people are raving about if that matters to you or not (You'll get to tell your new Private Pilot student: "See that mountain over there? Stay away from it!".