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-   -   ATP CFI program? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-schools-training/7193-atp-cfi-program.html)

Puppyz 11-15-2006 01:30 PM

ATP CFI program?
 
Anyone have any experience with ATPs 14 day CFI program?
its 14 days, $5,995 + examiner fees, CFI , CFII , MEI Initial . I understand its real fast paced to finish all that in 14 days, a lot of self study. Just wondering if anyones done this and knows anything about it?

LAfrequentflyer 11-15-2006 01:32 PM

With ATP you'll get what you pay for. They will not jerk you around. You pay - you leave with your ratings.

-LAFF

Puppyz 11-15-2006 01:40 PM

the CFI program says they consider you for a job with them as an instructor, which would work out well since they fly mostly multi engine aircraft. I just want to know if anyones been down this road before or knows someone who has?

LAfrequentflyer 11-15-2006 02:51 PM

A lot of folks on this board have...You'll get plenty of insight from them. I know a few are CFIs there.

-LAFF

Pilotpip 11-15-2006 03:05 PM

A couple friends have gotten their ratings this way. Be ready to go when you get there. They're going to assume that you've been studying and I believe you are also supposed to have the FOI/CFI/CFI-I writtens passed and in hand upon starting the program.

Puppyz 11-15-2006 03:11 PM

yea I'm gonna do the writtens before I head down there. The cfi program is only offered at a few locations, I live in ny and atlanta seems like where I would go.

N6724G 11-15-2006 05:02 PM

I fly out of the same airport in Atlanta that ATP is at. They tell me the CFI's ther eonly make $1000 a month and you have to go to Jacksonville first to answer phones or something before you get a flying gig

LAfrequentflyer 11-15-2006 07:00 PM

Thats also what I hear. 1K or 1.2K a month depending on ATP housing or not.

You do log ME time, have a good supply of students and will get the TT and ME time quick to move to the next step.

-LAFF

WhiteH2O 11-15-2006 07:59 PM

I am a CFI in Western Washington. I can't even imagine $1000 a month. I am getting a little over half that. Even Great Lakes would be a pay raise for me. If I had the chance to CFI for ATP, I would be right on that. Not to mention the multi time.

Puppyz 11-15-2006 08:40 PM

called up ATP and requested some more info from them, they have some requirement for 15 hours PIC multi engine time for their CFI program, otherwise u pay $1,000 extra to build it with them. Bumps the cost of the program from $5995 to $6995 + Examiner Fees which range from $1200 to $1500 ( 3 checkrides)

WhiteH2O 11-16-2006 11:54 AM

That "some requirement" is in the FARs. You have to have 15 PIC in a twin to take the MEI checkride with anyone. $1000 for 15 hours in a twin isn't bad.

AVIVIII 11-22-2006 06:21 PM

I went through ATP's 90-Day program (Back when it was only $28k...) in Jacksonville. I did a lot of research, talked to a lot of people and visited many different schools, including 3 different ATP locations. Included in my training was the 2 week CFI program which is the same one that they are offering for $6k. Have absolutely no concerns about the quality of training that you will receive. It is very intensive and intensively thorough. I came away from the entire experience with absolutely no complaints, what so ever.

If you are trying to choose a location, let me give you some quick advice. Since you are already traveling a fair distance, it really shouldn't matter too much
where you go.

Choose Jacksonville, hands down.

A couple of reasons:
1.) It is ATP's home base. This is important especially for you. During my training there, we spent a lot of time at other locations, and JAX was definitely the most professional. Not to say that the others weren't professional, but there was something about the air at JAX that demanded excellence from everyone.

2.) Along with 1.), the best of the best are there as far as staff is concerned. The best instructors get JAX. The chief instructors are great guys and the one that does the bulk of the CFI class is Master CFI Walt Schamel. You will learn soooo much.

3.) Again, back to 1.), if you want to work for the company you will meet the guys in dispatch, the big guy, Jim K. and all of the other important people that make the company tick. You will also meet the woman that put the resumes on Jim's desk...

As far as working for them goes, they definitely demand the same excellence and intensity that they provide. My instructor logged over 1000 hrs of MEL time in a year flying every day and spending an average of 11 hours a day between the airport and the sim. (obviously not flying all that time), and was still very energetic and truly loved her job. Just remember, the check book might not really like the job, but the log book will love it. Plus, you get to live about 10 minutes from the airport (KCRG) with a whole bunch of pilots. If you want to live, sleep, eat and breath airplanes (namely PA-44s!) this is the place for you. I made that decision and I loved it, no regrets.

Puppyz 11-22-2006 06:57 PM

thank you , thats the info I was looking for. good to hear from someone who went thru their training. thanks for the headsup on jax. i'll PM you with some more questions if you dont mind :)

AVIVIII 11-22-2006 07:22 PM

No problem, more than happy to help

AVIVIII 11-22-2006 09:56 PM

Another thing I just realized as I was perusing all of the postings. For the three checkrides I spent $450 on my MEI which was my initial CFI. There are (or were) so many applicants for CFI in FL that the FSDO can't handle them all and assign them to a very few, select DPEs accross the state. The CFII which was done in the Seminole and the Single Engine add-on in a 172 were $300 each. I just find it hard to believe that the examiners were charging $500 per check ride. Up here in NH it is only $225 average!

pilot_man 11-22-2006 10:52 PM

I just wanted to add that im going to start ATP's 90 day program in Jan., and from what I can tell, from who I have talked to, and even from what I have read....this is the place to go!! I really have no info to give you about the program, I just thought I would say that ATP is worth the money and I cant wait till I get started.

Puppyz 11-23-2006 08:17 AM

hey good luck pilot_man, thats about the time ill be starting the cfi program. What location are you headed to?

pilot_man 11-24-2006 09:44 AM

Thanks and good luck to you too. Ill be heading to the GKY location. Where you heading?

LAfrequentflyer 11-24-2006 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVIVIII (Post 83832)
I went through ATP's 90-Day program (Back when it was only $28k...) in Jacksonville. I did a lot of research, talked to a lot of people and visited many different schools, including 3 different ATP locations. Included in my training was the 2 week CFI program which is the same one that they are offering for $6k. Have absolutely no concerns about the quality of training that you will receive. It is very intensive and intensively thorough. I came away from the entire experience with absolutely no complaints, what so ever.

If you are trying to choose a location, let me give you some quick advice. Since you are already traveling a fair distance, it really shouldn't matter too much
where you go.

Choose Jacksonville, hands down.

A couple of reasons:
1.) It is ATP's home base. This is important especially for you. During my training there, we spent a lot of time at other locations, and JAX was definitely the most professional. Not to say that the others weren't professional, but there was something about the air at JAX that demanded excellence from everyone.

2.) Along with 1.), the best of the best are there as far as staff is concerned. The best instructors get JAX. The chief instructors are great guys and the one that does the bulk of the CFI class is Master CFI Walt Schamel. You will learn soooo much.

3.) Again, back to 1.), if you want to work for the company you will meet the guys in dispatch, the big guy, Jim K. and all of the other important people that make the company tick. You will also meet the woman that put the resumes on Jim's desk...

As far as working for them goes, they definitely demand the same excellence and intensity that they provide. My instructor logged over 1000 hrs of MEL time in a year flying every day and spending an average of 11 hours a day between the airport and the sim. (obviously not flying all that time), and was still very energetic and truly loved her job. Just remember, the check book might not really like the job, but the log book will love it. Plus, you get to live about 10 minutes from the airport (KCRG) with a whole bunch of pilots. If you want to live, sleep, eat and breath airplanes (namely PA-44s!) this is the place for you. I made that decision and I loved it, no regrets.

Thanks for posting...I've done my research as well and ATPs is hands down the best flight training deal out there. Outside the military of course...

-LAFF

sigep_nm 11-25-2006 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer (Post 84321)
Thanks for posting...I've done my research as well and ATPs is hands down the best flight training deal out there. Outside the military of course...

-LAFF

Laff,
I agree with most of your posts, but best training deal out there? Maybe for the cost, but not for the quality. I worked in PHX with a lot of guys from ATP, and a meth head with an uzi doesnt scare me as much as some of those guys with an airplane, let alone teaching someone how to fly one. No offense, but a professional is not made in 90 days.

sigep_nm 11-25-2006 12:18 AM

i dont think you can even get hooked on crank in 90 days

AVIVIII 11-25-2006 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigep_nm (Post 84532)
Laff,
I agree with most of your posts, but best training deal out there? Maybe for the cost, but not for the quality. I worked in PHX with a lot of guys from ATP, and a meth head with an uzi doesnt scare me as much as some of those guys with an airplane, let alone teaching someone how to fly one. No offense, but a professional is not made in 90 days.

One of the things that I found is that the quality of the pilot after they left had a lot to do with their previous training. Also, like anything if you just go through the motions and don't take anything away from it, you aren't going to get anything out of it. It is unfortunate, but you can go through the motions and get away with it, but those aren't the guys that want to be a professional pilot. I figured that anyone that was posting here would have more respect for themselves.

Regardless of any of that, the biggest question was about their CFI program. I might be atypical, but just before I was supposed to start working for ATP in the office, I got a Job offer from a small airport back home. So I left the flat-land for my lake house in NH. I ended up logging 1400 hours dual given and signing off nearly 30 check rides in 2 years, everything from private to multi commercial and CFII, all except one passed on the first try.

LAfrequentflyer 11-25-2006 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigep_nm (Post 84532)
Laff,
I agree with most of your posts, but best training deal out there? Maybe for the cost, but not for the quality. I worked in PHX with a lot of guys from ATP, and a meth head with an uzi doesnt scare me as much as some of those guys with an airplane, let alone teaching someone how to fly one. No offense, but a professional is not made in 90 days.

For the cost / time its the best deal out there. I agree a professional is not made in 90 days. However, 90 months of training at an FBO won't make you any more professional.

I do believe a stint as a CFI will / does help most aspiring pilots.

-LAFF

sigep_nm 11-25-2006 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVIVIII (Post 84578)
One of the things that I found is that the quality of the pilot after they left had a lot to do with their previous training. Also, like anything if you just go through the motions and don't take anything away from it, you aren't going to get anything out of it. It is unfortunate, but you can go through the motions and get away with it, but those aren't the guys that want to be a professional pilot. I figured that anyone that was posting here would have more respect for themselves.

Regardless of any of that, the biggest question was about their CFI program. I might be atypical, but just before I was supposed to start working for ATP in the office, I got a Job offer from a small airport back home. So I left the flat-land for my lake house in NH. I ended up logging 1400 hours dual given and signing off nearly 30 check rides in 2 years, everything from private to multi commercial and CFII, all except one passed on the first try.

Serious question, how much of that was training for an EXAMINER, and how much was it training for a rating. This is not a spite or a joke, but a serious question. It happens more than you think

Slice 11-25-2006 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer (Post 84588)
For the cost / time its the best deal out there. I agree a professional is not made in 90 days. However, 90 months of training at an FBO won't make you any more professional.

I do believe a stint as a CFI will / does help most aspiring pilots.

-LAFF


For time and cost check out www.prairieairservice.com, it'll save you about $15K over ATP.

PDXflyer 11-25-2006 03:14 PM

I think the ATP program is the way to go. get your ratings and get out. Don't waste time going to some place like riddle. Its not about where you train, its about where you go to get your experience.

AVIVIII 11-25-2006 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigep_nm (Post 84680)
Serious question, how much of that was training for an EXAMINER, and how much was it training for a rating. This is not a spite or a joke, but a serious question. It happens more than you think

I do take that question seriously, and I do know how much it actually happens. At ATP they definitely train and require you to have the knowledge and be able to perform to the PTS. That being said, they let you know what the examiner will be looking for specifically. Certain people were sticklers for airspeed on steep turns, certain people liked you to say "Checklist complete" at the end of each checklist, etc, etc. And the examiners aren't fools either, they can tell as well as you or I who knows their stuff and who doesn't. They strongly discouraged "Gouge Training" but there are so many people and so few examiners that it isn't too difficult to figure out a certain examiner's style.

How was that for clear as mud?

AVIVIII 11-25-2006 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXflyer (Post 84716)
I think the ATP program is the way to go. get your ratings and get out. Don't waste time going to some place like riddle. Its not about where you train, its about where you go to get your experience.

As much as I agree with you about not going to Riddle or similar schools, I think that the most important thing is your attitude. Especially during your training, don't loose track of your goals, don't get caught up in all the BS, make sure you have fun, learn all you can whenever and from whoever you can and for god sakes don't jump on the first job that comes a long just because it has a jet engine. Do it for yourself, not for the jet! Fly as many different planes as you can, including tail draggers with no radios (Yes its possible, I promise). Just get the experience and take it for what it is worth. Fly because you love it and yeah, try to get a good paycheck out of it too!

Good luck with your taining!


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