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Old 01-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #21  
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I think pretty soon there will be jam in the CFI world. Too many CFIs not many jobs cause they are all stuck building their time. I was lucky enough to get recently hired at decent regional but trust me I have felt yr pain.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:31 PM   #22  
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Originally Posted by PearlPilot View Post
If I were the king of the FAA I would perhaps implement more training on stalls, icing and any other aspects of flying that pertains to air carrier operations. (Yes Colgan 3407 comes to my mind) I don't however think a 250 hour candidate is qualified to fly a CRJ.

{snip}

Should the FAA revisit the rule? If not, perhaps flight schools should or will have to drastically increase the pay of CFIs...
While I'm a big advocate of enhancing actual training, there is no substitute for real world experience. I don't think the 1500 hour rule needs to be revisited.

On the other hand, I think the minimums to fly Part 135 DO need to be revisited, and revised downwards to provide a more logical progression.

To again point out what has been stated on other threads on this topic: Only for the last few years have seen less than 2000 hours as an entry point to air carrier operations. Historically it has been 2000+ hours (often more like 3000-4000) to be competitive for a regional position. The fact that it's been so easy to get a regional position is part of what has fouled up the whole career progression scheme.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:15 PM   #23  
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Why? 1,500 hours is a drop in the bucket. It's nothing. A 1,500 hour fighter pilot may think he's king of the roost, but he's still just a 1,500 hour pilot who barely meets the minimum qualifications.
Let's see here...

resume #1:

1500 tt, 1300 multi engine turbine PIC (all of the time is turbine time, even the time spent learning how to fly), fighter weapons school graduate, 400 hours of combat

resume #2:
1500 tt, 1300 single engine piston PIC, 200 hours piston ME, CFI-I. 1100 hours of instruction giving

These are not the same... one is in the mix at the majors... the other is hoping skywest starts hiring again so he doesn't have to "settle" for another regional.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #24  
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Why? 1,500 hours is a drop in the bucket. It's nothing. A 1,500 hour fighter pilot may think he's king of the roost, but he's still just a 1,500 hour pilot who barely meets the minimum qualifications.

Serious lack of situational awareness here.

A 1500-hour fighter guy is a premium commodity at most major airlines. His 1500 hours is competitive at any US major.

1500 civilian hours is barely competitive at a regional airline.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:24 PM   #25  
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I agree that there is a definite premium on military training based on the sheer volume of structured curriculum that the mil guys get to go through
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:51 PM   #26  
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Will you have 500 hrs XC in 6 months too? That's the hardest part to get.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:02 PM   #27  
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On the other hand, I think the minimums to fly Part 135 DO need to be revisited, and revised downwards to provide a more logical progression.
The FAAs obligation is safety, not to help you progress. That's your problem.

500 hour minimums for VFR 135 are too high? Hardly.

1200 hour minimums for IFR 135 too high? Not at all.

Interesting that it's generally the new guy complaining about the times being too high. It's also the new guy that thinks 1,500 hours is high time. It's not. It's barely enough experience to know how to open the door.

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Serious lack of situational awareness here.
Ah, no.

Quote:
A 1500-hour fighter guy is a premium commodity at most major airlines. His 1500 hours is competitive at any US major.
No, he's not. Especially not if it's single engine fighter time. Certain good-old-boy airlines like Delta where being a military buddy is the step in the door, it's an advantage. Others, not so much.

I know a lot of places that won't touch former airline or military, for various reasons. It's not necessarily a plus. 1,500 hours isn't much, regardless of weather it was in a Cessna droning around the pattern, or in an F16. It's still 1,500 hours. It seems like a lot to the kid with the star on his sleeve, but not to the rest of us.

I've known a lot of drivers who got out of the military thinking they were a hot commodity, only to learn they needed more experience to compete.

Quote:
resume #1:

1500 tt, 1300 multi engine turbine PIC (all of the time is turbine time, even the time spent learning how to fly), fighter weapons school graduate, 400 hours of combat

resume #2:
1500 tt, 1300 single engine piston PIC, 200 hours piston ME, CFI-I. 1100 hours of instruction giving
Fighter weapons school has exactly what to do with flying an ILS to minimums, or dealing with schedules and passengers? Nothing. You're right. Airlines don't engage in combat. Combat experience really isn't relevant, you see.

I once heard a fighter pilot prattle on about how he'd been dropping weapons killing people at a young age that his competitors for the airlines had not, and therefore he was much better qualified. Testosterone and killing doesn't really make one competitive. It means one did one's job in one environment. Coming from the military, one has worked for one employer. Possibly several squadrons, and possibly several communities if one has a particularly broad background. However, just as most airlines don't give much credence to helicopter time, single engine fighter time isn't that relevant, either. Neither is fighter weapons school or combat. Then again, neither is aerobatic work and much of what's done in the fighter community, to airline operations. Different worlds.

Airline flying in generaly is about as middle of the road, basic, flavorless work as you can get, and particularly with respect to the regionals, very entry-level.

I've known more than a few guys who thought they had the world by the tail, and who were dismayed at the pay cut required to go civillian, and the need to go somewhere and get experience before they could compete.

I know a particular fighter jock who thought he really was the bees knees until he stacked an airplane up last year. He couldn't understand how the heavily laden airplane wouldn't climb when he pointed the nose up, and he rode it into the ground behind the power curve like a hapless student pilot. He never put the nose down, never tried to gain back some airspeed, and never jettisoned his load...and in the end was surprised to find that he was considered the bad guy. Unfortunately for him, that employer will never hire another military pilot again. Go figure.

Military aviators can be proud of their service, but don't be so proud as to think it's a ticket to the front of the line. It's not. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #28  
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Originally Posted by SiShane View Post
I think pretty soon there will be jam in the CFI world. Too many CFIs not many jobs cause they are all stuck building their time. I was lucky enough to get recently hired at decent regional but trust me I have felt yr pain.
Doesn't that happen already? There are 10 CFIs and 100 students, those 100 students can't all eventually become CFIs, they'd need 1000 students the next time around. The other 90 students that can't work as CFIs (but may still get their CFI) have to go work "somewhere else". That used to mean pipeline patrol, cargo/freight, banner towing, parachute jumpers, etc, but there aren't as many of those jobs anymore and most can't sustain on that money.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:04 PM   #29  
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Hi,

Can you elaborate as to why your friends who have been in regional for past six months will not meet 500 hr cross country min? I mean they have 8 more months to go which would make their regional life roughly 14 months. Isn't all flights in regional airlines more than 50 miles? Are they not getting at least 30-40 hours of flight time at their regionals???

Thank you.
Well, there's the whole training process, and then sitting reserve. If you are not holding a line, you may only be getting 10 or 15 flight hours a month. So, say the training/IOE process takes 2 months, you may only have 150 to 200 flight hours in your first year. Of course this all depends on your airline, base, and airframe.

I'm really just alluding to the fact that 1500TT may not be the end-all, be-all to get your foot in the door.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:08 PM   #30  
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Well, don't make training needlessly long for the students, but there's nothing to say you can't get creative. Take two students and do one flight to an airport 50 miles away, then get the other student up front and have him fly back. Do your maneuvers while enroute. I got my XC time by volunteering for each and every XC I could, with other people's students. 500hrs of XC is good experience.
Oh I'm not saying XC time is not possible. Just wondering how many people are in for a rude awakening when they hit 1500TT and 200XC and suddenly realize they don't magically meet the mins. I'm right there with you on volunteering for every XC opportunity available. Taking 2 students is not usually an option as I do most of my primary training in 2-place aircraft.
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