My take on the 1500 hour rule
#21
I think pretty soon there will be jam in the CFI world. Too many CFIs not many jobs cause they are all stuck building their time. I was lucky enough to get recently hired at decent regional but trust me I have felt yr pain.
#22
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
Posts: 849
If I were the king of the FAA I would perhaps implement more training on stalls, icing and any other aspects of flying that pertains to air carrier operations. (Yes Colgan 3407 comes to my mind) I don't however think a 250 hour candidate is qualified to fly a CRJ.
{snip}
Should the FAA revisit the rule? If not, perhaps flight schools should or will have to drastically increase the pay of CFIs...
{snip}
Should the FAA revisit the rule? If not, perhaps flight schools should or will have to drastically increase the pay of CFIs...
On the other hand, I think the minimums to fly Part 135 DO need to be revisited, and revised downwards to provide a more logical progression.
To again point out what has been stated on other threads on this topic: Only for the last few years have seen less than 2000 hours as an entry point to air carrier operations. Historically it has been 2000+ hours (often more like 3000-4000) to be competitive for a regional position. The fact that it's been so easy to get a regional position is part of what has fouled up the whole career progression scheme.
#23
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 12
resume #1:
1500 tt, 1300 multi engine turbine PIC (all of the time is turbine time, even the time spent learning how to fly), fighter weapons school graduate, 400 hours of combat
resume #2:
1500 tt, 1300 single engine piston PIC, 200 hours piston ME, CFI-I. 1100 hours of instruction giving
These are not the same... one is in the mix at the majors... the other is hoping skywest starts hiring again so he doesn't have to "settle" for another regional.
#24
Serious lack of situational awareness here.
A 1500-hour fighter guy is a premium commodity at most major airlines. His 1500 hours is competitive at any US major.
1500 civilian hours is barely competitive at a regional airline.
#27
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,021
On the other hand, I think the minimums to fly Part 135 DO need to be revisited, and revised downwards to provide a more logical progression.
500 hour minimums for VFR 135 are too high? Hardly.
1200 hour minimums for IFR 135 too high? Not at all.
Interesting that it's generally the new guy complaining about the times being too high. It's also the new guy that thinks 1,500 hours is high time. It's not. It's barely enough experience to know how to open the door.
Serious lack of situational awareness here.
A 1500-hour fighter guy is a premium commodity at most major airlines. His 1500 hours is competitive at any US major.
I know a lot of places that won't touch former airline or military, for various reasons. It's not necessarily a plus. 1,500 hours isn't much, regardless of weather it was in a Cessna droning around the pattern, or in an F16. It's still 1,500 hours. It seems like a lot to the kid with the star on his sleeve, but not to the rest of us.
I've known a lot of drivers who got out of the military thinking they were a hot commodity, only to learn they needed more experience to compete.
resume #1:
1500 tt, 1300 multi engine turbine PIC (all of the time is turbine time, even the time spent learning how to fly), fighter weapons school graduate, 400 hours of combat
resume #2:
1500 tt, 1300 single engine piston PIC, 200 hours piston ME, CFI-I. 1100 hours of instruction giving
1500 tt, 1300 multi engine turbine PIC (all of the time is turbine time, even the time spent learning how to fly), fighter weapons school graduate, 400 hours of combat
resume #2:
1500 tt, 1300 single engine piston PIC, 200 hours piston ME, CFI-I. 1100 hours of instruction giving
I once heard a fighter pilot prattle on about how he'd been dropping weapons killing people at a young age that his competitors for the airlines had not, and therefore he was much better qualified. Testosterone and killing doesn't really make one competitive. It means one did one's job in one environment. Coming from the military, one has worked for one employer. Possibly several squadrons, and possibly several communities if one has a particularly broad background. However, just as most airlines don't give much credence to helicopter time, single engine fighter time isn't that relevant, either. Neither is fighter weapons school or combat. Then again, neither is aerobatic work and much of what's done in the fighter community, to airline operations. Different worlds.
Airline flying in generaly is about as middle of the road, basic, flavorless work as you can get, and particularly with respect to the regionals, very entry-level.
I've known more than a few guys who thought they had the world by the tail, and who were dismayed at the pay cut required to go civillian, and the need to go somewhere and get experience before they could compete.
I know a particular fighter jock who thought he really was the bees knees until he stacked an airplane up last year. He couldn't understand how the heavily laden airplane wouldn't climb when he pointed the nose up, and he rode it into the ground behind the power curve like a hapless student pilot. He never put the nose down, never tried to gain back some airspeed, and never jettisoned his load...and in the end was surprised to find that he was considered the bad guy. Unfortunately for him, that employer will never hire another military pilot again. Go figure.
Military aviators can be proud of their service, but don't be so proud as to think it's a ticket to the front of the line. It's not. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
#28
Doesn't that happen already? There are 10 CFIs and 100 students, those 100 students can't all eventually become CFIs, they'd need 1000 students the next time around. The other 90 students that can't work as CFIs (but may still get their CFI) have to go work "somewhere else". That used to mean pipeline patrol, cargo/freight, banner towing, parachute jumpers, etc, but there aren't as many of those jobs anymore and most can't sustain on that money.
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,480
Hi,
Can you elaborate as to why your friends who have been in regional for past six months will not meet 500 hr cross country min? I mean they have 8 more months to go which would make their regional life roughly 14 months. Isn't all flights in regional airlines more than 50 miles? Are they not getting at least 30-40 hours of flight time at their regionals???
Thank you.
Can you elaborate as to why your friends who have been in regional for past six months will not meet 500 hr cross country min? I mean they have 8 more months to go which would make their regional life roughly 14 months. Isn't all flights in regional airlines more than 50 miles? Are they not getting at least 30-40 hours of flight time at their regionals???
Thank you.
I'm really just alluding to the fact that 1500TT may not be the end-all, be-all to get your foot in the door.
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,480
Well, don't make training needlessly long for the students, but there's nothing to say you can't get creative. Take two students and do one flight to an airport 50 miles away, then get the other student up front and have him fly back. Do your maneuvers while enroute. I got my XC time by volunteering for each and every XC I could, with other people's students. 500hrs of XC is good experience.
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