viper3881

Hello ladies and gentlemen. Just wanted to give a brief introduction, and explain the reason for my post. First let’s start with I’m a 50 hour pilot about to take my check ride for my PPL. The goal is to get my ATP for the long term. Of course my ATP will not be built on my aircraft ownership, but if I get hired by someone it will be. The short term goal is to reach 500 hours so that I have a good chance with a charter service that has two king airs. I have inside information about this so that’s a start. Now you may be thinking that I’m planning way too far in advance. Well to be honest my next stage is my instrument rating, and plan on doing my multi add-on with my instrument training. So with that being said it leads to my next and the biggest question.

So I’m trying to gather as much data and input from experienced owners and operators. What I’m trying to do is buy my own aircraft. I know the typical question that gets asked all the time. Here is my situation and really need you folks to fill in any addition info. Basically what I’m looking for is advice in each section that you are familiar with. If you comment you don’t need to comment in each section, but more the area that you have experience with the most. This way I can build a list of things I need to be prepared for as a new plane owner, and try my best to have all my ducks in a row the best I can. As you fill me in with information I will update my main post so that others that may view this will find it valuable.

Objective for purchasing the plane
1.Use it for my Instrument training, along with my multi add-on. If I go with a SEL then of course I will need to rent a multi for addons to my current SEL certifications.
2.Then build hours and work towards my commercial.
3.Finally get my multi instructor ratings so I have them both for VFR and instrument. Of course I know I will get my Single Instructor CFI in a rented plane that I already have planned.
4.Then just build hours in my plane till I hit that magical 500 numbers give or take.
5.Sell plane after all my hours are done with about 1000 or lower
till its next overhaul.
6. Not looking for an entry level plane like a 162, 172, etc. Rather the best bang for my buck, and hours that actually mean something when I go for an interview.
7. I plan to do all my hours (without) becoming a flight instructor. Not because I don't want to teach, but I do have the luxury of not doing it. Still will get my instructor ratings. Plus having it will be a good fallback if I decide to sell my plane and still need to build hours.

**I know the planes below are either high performance airplanes or Multi-engine, but getting issuance might be easier as a low hour pilot in a single vs. a multi-engine. I don’t really plan on using this for solo needs right off the bat, but rather dual with my instructor. Then as I build hours the insurance company may allow me to fly with passengers. For example the insurance company may say (50hrs dual,20hrs solo prior to taking passengers). Since the 400, and SR22 are high performance I believe I would need to be instrument rated before anything. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought once I get my PPL, I would get checked out in it, and not necessarily need my Instrument rating right away. Of course I would be limited to VFR only while I'm training in my instrument.**

Planes Considering
**Must be under 500 hours since overhaul, and it also depends on the overhaul type**
•Cessna 310 – Total Variable Cost Per Hour:$198.99 - upgraded avionics would be nice, but is a complex aircraft and will be more of a challenge with learning IFR and multi in the beginning.
•Beechcraft Baron 55- Total Variable Cost Per Hour:$228.48 - Same as the 310 above with regards equipment and power.
•Diamond Twin Star – Total Variable Cost Per Hour:$62.4 - Great hour building fuel burn PER HOUR is amazing
•Piper Seminole – Total Variable Cost Per Hour:$109.12 - Great trainer, and probably a good plane to build hours in because it’s slow and very forgiving.

Alternative Planes
• Cessna 400 Total Variable Cost Per Hour:$176.14
• Cirrus SR22 Total Variable Cost Per Hour:$135.66

Planes and hours
1. What is your suggestion on building time? I hear some say multi is a great thing to have as an hour builder. Others say if you got something like a Cessna 400 it may not be as good as a Multi, but way better just building 500 hours in a 162-172. Feedback welcome on this.

Budget
My budget is between 0-350,000. I do have the luxury or paying it all off at once or at least placing a large amount down if I need to use money elsewhere.

Hanger
Found a few hangers at my local airport and budget for around 0-450 per month. Here is one in particular I was looking at.
Size: Medium Tee- 1248 sq. ft.
Door Size: 42 X 12 (Need bigger hanger for Diamond DA42 with its 44ft wingspan)
Features: End Tee, Features: EPOXY FLOOR, FULL BATH, 2 CEILING FANS,INSULATED,STORAGE, HEATED,TANKLESS WATER HEATER, EXTRA LIGHTING, UTILITIES PAID BY RENTER

Insurance
I know my premiums will be higher as a lower hour pilot, but I do know if the plane is paid in full then it’s obvious I wouldn’t have such high premiums. Most insurance rates I got where around 4000-7000 per year. Of course I will need to add my instructors so that aircraft can be insured to teach in.

Preventative maintenance
-Oil changes 30hrs
-Tires
-Avionics maintenance
-25 hour and annual
-5000 – 10,000 contingency money.
-Updates to taxi, navdata, af/d, coms. 1000-2000 annually. Of course this is a luxury but trying to get all items on the list.

Everyone thanks so much for taking the time to read my post, and can’t wait for your educated feedback on this. I’m open to all suggestions.

rickair7777

This sort of thing has been done before, but usually with ME airplanes back when you needed 500+ ME to even get considered by a regional.


Look at renting. If you're not going to keep the plane for long or put a lot of hours on it renting might be cheaper and easier.

500 hours IS entry level, barely...it's barely beyond student. At 500 hours all ASEL land time is going to have the same meaning (unless it's an F-16). ME time might be more attractive, as would turbine time.

For your purposes 152 = 172 = Cessna 400 = Cirrus. Pick the one you'd rather have or get a twin. I like Diamonds and any piper twin.


Good to have the CFI as a professional pilot. If nothing else it will help your knowledge.

viper3881

@rickair Yeah I was thinking about just renting, but I may just keep the plane as well. See if I get my hours, and like to build around 400 total hours in my own plane it seems practical to just own. I could keep the plane but if I do decide to sell it would only be because I got a job. Yes, I know 500 hours is still low time but the charter company I have contacts with said they can get me in around 400-500+ so thats just a low goal ATM. I just didnt want 500 hours (rough number) to be all ASEL. I wasn't sure if a 400/SR22T would change that or not. Yes, I agree the Diamond DA42 is high on my list right now!

Thanks again for your input! Its greatly appreciated!!

Ewfflyer

Sounds like you have a good enough job, why not keep it and fly for fun? It does change things. Btw, you will be getting slammed for this, just a heads up. People just are that way, I don't intend to be perceived as haggling you.

Seriously though, if you are buying to keep, a Cessna 400 or C310 are great planes, just depends on what you want. Plenty of cheaper twins out there than singles, but insurance will be tougher as well as direct operating cost. Having a skilled and knowledgeable mechanic that knows that specific airframe do a prebuy for you is essential in any case. There are several 'gotcha's' that can significantly effect the value or even airworthiness of that particular airframe.

If you are buying to train, slower and under powered is your best bang for the buck. That C310 can eat you alive, seen it happen at my old charter job with guys almost 1100TT(we cut them loose). Otherwise I love them, 2000hrs in them and just a soft spot in my heart.

Good luck

threeighteen

If you're going to buy a twin, you should budget for much more than 10k in emergency funds...

Wouldn't hurt to post where you are, maybe you can get a partner (or two) to go in on the plane with you. It would cut your fixed costs in half, at the minimum.

JamesNoBrakes

Yes, an engine rebuild/overhaul is a good number to factor in if you aren't going to have an extra one on hand (may not be possible to have another on hand if it's a twin anyway).

viper3881

@ewfflyer @threeighten and @Jamesnobrakes

First guys thanks for the feedback. Starting with ewfflyer Yes, my job is pretty good, but that has not stopped me from wanting to become a pilot. All this money to start around 20-30k..hehe Like I was saying before I do have the luxury of paying in full, and thus it gives me the luxury or not working either.

Next on the planes you mentioned I have heard the same thing that the 310 can be a real pig, and overall its a great plane, but can really turn this great plane into a hanger queen if your preparation is not there. Like you mentioned in your post I do want something slow as I'am doing this to build hours, and no so much getting there fast. Thats why I have narrowed this down to a Diamond DA42 or a Piper Seminole.

Now to threeighten. Yes, I completely agree I know it can cost a lot more for an engine. I did figure in for SMOH or STOH on (example 310) or any of the planes listed. The 5k-10k was more for random things that come up like rigging, mags, bad coms, landing light, tires, etc.

Let me ask you three this. Lets just say I purchased a Sr22T, Cessna 350/400, or anything comparable to them. Now they are Single piston planes, and not twins but I'm wondering if it would be cheaper to just build hours in that and rent the twin. So a scenario would look like that (hypothetically)...

Total hours = 1000
Single = 450
IFR Single = 450
Multi = 50
Multi IFR = 50

That give me 100 multi hours, some IFR in multi. Or would you do it reverse and owned the plane as a multi and just rent what you need for ASEL addons? I just want to set myself up for the best opportunity to get hired?

By the way I live in Aurora, IL area and here is the planes I'm looking at

Piper Seminole 2002
2002 Piper Seminole - JA Air Center

Cessna 310 1973
1973 Cessna 310Q - JA Air Center

Thanks!

jcaplins

Sounds like you need to buy 3 planes: SE, SE complex, ME. Start a flight school, make a little profit, and fly whatever plane you need at the time and build hours to your heart's content.

viper3881

haha Yeah I saved money, but I don't want to be broke either!

I'm just down to either a SE complex, or ME.

threeighteen

Move to Colorado, I'll go 50/50 with you on this one

2008 DIAMOND DA42 TDI Piston Twin Aircraft For Sale At Controller.com