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Buying a Cessna 150 to build time

Old 03-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #11  
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Actually they're fun airplanes for hobby pilots, best deal around these days. You can be an airplane owner for less than the cost of a good set of shotguns or ski-doos.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:18 PM
  #12  
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Great idea! This is the type of creativity future pilots are going to need to lower costs associated with flying. Turn it into a learning opportunity all around! Form an LLC such as "123ABC Aviation, LLC" to purchase the aircraft. Become the manager, run it like a business, do aerial photography, etc? Keep track of your maintenance hours under the supervision of an A&P to get a signoff for an A, P or both one day. Investigate tax advantages like donating time to charity, medical supply transport, etc. However, always remember the old saying, "If you want to make a large fortune into a small one, invest in aviation. Proceed with caution and do your due diligence!

I've been there and done that! In the end, I considered myself fortunate to break even. However, today the costs of flying are so much higher it certainly is worth a look!

Last edited by hypoxia; 03-23-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:30 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Lindenberg View Post
I am interested in buying a 150. In theory I'd buy it, fly it like crazy for a few months, then sell. All in hopes to have no maintenance issues and only plan on flying for 200-300 hours. The cheapest 150 around to rent from a flight school is $87 an hour so if all went to plan it would work out well. I know nothing in aviation goes to plan but i can still hope. Any suggestions, previous experience with this, or ideas would be appreciated.
You will have maintenance expenses, trust me. It can be a radio issue, ELT Battery, AD's or as simple as an oil change every 50 or 100 hours. You will also have tie-down expense ($75-$100/month) and insurance (if you don't finance the plane, Liability Ins. at the very least)
I purchased an airplane back in the early 70's and put about 800 hours on it and sold it in 1980 for exactly what I paid for it (it was a 72 Beech Sport with damage history). But between those years maintenance issues would always creep up (including some major engine work because I bought the airplane with damage history and the AI (Mechanic) failed to repair it correctly. But if you calculate it all out, owning for the sake of "time-building" is a real money saver and convenient. Best of luck...
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:17 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by krudawg View Post
You will have maintenance expenses, trust me. It can be a radio issue, ELT Battery, AD's or as simple as an oil change every 50 or 100 hours. You will also have tie-down expense ($75-$100/month) and insurance (if you don't finance the plane, Liability Ins. at the very least)
I purchased an airplane back in the early 70's and put about 800 hours on it and sold it in 1980 for exactly what I paid for it (it was a 72 Beech Sport with damage history). But between those years maintenance issues would always creep up (including some major engine work because I bought the airplane with damage history and the AI (Mechanic) failed to repair it correctly. But if you calculate it all out, owning for the sake of "time-building" is a real money saver and convenient. Best of luck...
If one wants to know what it's like to own an airplane cost-wise, take the hourly rate you pay at the FBO, and subtract $3-5. There you have it. That's your per-hour cost you'll end up paying. You might be able to subtract more like $10 if you can get the same kind of deals they can on maintenance (usually they employ a mechanic or have an agreement with a local one to perform maintenance, so it doesn't cost them as much). I've run the numbers more than a few times and the FBOs minimize their own costs where they can and they aren't pulling in tons of money on the deal, often it's the true cost of operating the aircraft plus just a little bit for the profit. It's not like you're going to save $30 or 40 on the per-hour cost. It just doesn't work out. Insurance, insurance requirements, consumables, odds-and-ends, oil changes, unexpected maintenance, etc.

You might get lucky and sell the plane for the same price you paid or slightly more, it happened to a friend of mine, but it's not a good idea to plan for this. Usually with the capital cost, your payments, and then subtracting what you'll sell it for, you pay pretty much what the FBO charges per hour (no mystery there).
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:17 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
If one wants to know what it's like to own an airplane cost-wise, take the hourly rate you pay at the FBO, and subtract $3-5. There you have it. That's your per-hour cost you'll end up paying. You might be able to subtract more like $10 if you can get the same kind of deals they can on maintenance (usually they employ a mechanic or have an agreement with a local one to perform maintenance, so it doesn't cost them as much). I've run the numbers more than a few times and the FBOs minimize their own costs where they can and they aren't pulling in tons of money on the deal, often it's the true cost of operating the aircraft plus just a little bit for the profit. It's not like you're going to save $30 or 40 on the per-hour cost. It just doesn't work out. Insurance, insurance requirements, consumables, odds-and-ends, oil changes, unexpected maintenance, etc.

You might get lucky and sell the plane for the same price you paid or slightly more, it happened to a friend of mine, but it's not a good idea to plan for this. Usually with the capital cost, your payments, and then subtracting what you'll sell it for, you pay pretty much what the FBO charges per hour (no mystery there).
I'm not sure your math is correct. Remember, Rental Aircraft require 100 hr inspections, Lot's of abuse on the engine, T/o's and Landings, Tire replacements, hard landings and you name it. I think if you crunch the numbers, don't put away an engine reserve (since you are going to sell it) the math should pencil out to a savings better than 3 - 5 dollars. I'm going to predict that your number should show a 30% - 40% saving over rental. Especially if you sell the airplane during good economic times when demand for used airplanes is high. I bet if you search the net, somebody has a spreadsheet to compare rent vs own. Most private owners fly less than 75 hours a year. If your flying 200-300 hours a year and say you put 1000 hours on the plane in 3 to 4 years and as long as your engine is not run-out, your plane would have good value in good economic times. So try to buy a plane with a low time since overhaul (under 500 hours), fly the heck out of it and sell it. That's what I did
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:45 PM
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Definitely seems like a gamble but no different than buying a house or car and probably more similar to a boat. Better to have a friend with one. I think if all goes well than it could be a great idea. Without the benefit of hindsight who knows? If things go wrong they could go terribly wrong. Seems like a gamble either way. I think I would go with Apokleros and find a job and that way you can start climbing up the ladder. Good luck.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:54 AM
  #17  
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Not knocking the buy the aircraft idea, but, you plan to fly 200 - 300 hours on it. If you rent for $87 an hour and fly 200 hours, that's a known cost of $17,400 or $26,100 for 300 hours. no rent, no maintenance, no hangar/tie down, no 100 hour, no oil change, pretty much nothing. you can get a decent 150 for $17,000 but you will have maintenance costs. something will need to be fixed. also, are you paying cash? financing? you'll need a down payment and insurance in case of a incident or something in order to cover the loan.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:04 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by doublerjay View Post
Not knocking the buy the aircraft idea, but, you plan to fly 200 - 300 hours on it. If you rent for $87 an hour and fly 200 hours, that's a known cost of $17,400 or $26,100 for 300 hours. no rent, no maintenance, no hangar/tie down, no 100 hour, no oil change, pretty much nothing. you can get a decent 150 for $17,000 but you will have maintenance costs. something will need to be fixed. also, are you paying cash? financing? you'll need a down payment and insurance in case of a incident or something in order to cover the loan.
What does it mean when pilots say they would like to "split time"? I'm guessing one of the pilots is a CFI and the other gets dual? How else would you log meaningful/legal flight time with two pilots splitting costs? Also, would that look legitimate having received 300 hours of dual?
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:26 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Lindenberg View Post
I am interested in buying a 150. In theory I'd buy it, fly it like crazy for a few months, then sell. All in hopes to have no maintenance issues and only plan on flying for 200-300 hours. The cheapest 150 around to rent from a flight school is $87 an hour so if all went to plan it would work out well. I know nothing in aviation goes to plan but i can still hope. Any suggestions, previous experience with this, or ideas would be appreciated.
Take a look at the Beech Sport. It's basically a Cherokee 140 but a little slower. 0320 E2D engine is bullet proof. Buy one with a half-runout engine and they are cheaper than a C-150. They a roomy, a door on each side and great visibility! I built time in one and fell in love with it. They are cheaper because they are not as popular as a C-150.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:36 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by hypoxia View Post
Great idea! This is the type of creativity future pilots are going to need to lower costs associated with flying. Turn it into a learning opportunity all around! Form an LLC such as "123ABC Aviation, LLC" to purchase the aircraft. Become the manager, run it like a business, do aerial photography, etc? Keep track of your maintenance hours under the supervision of an A&P to get a signoff for an A, P or both one day. Investigate tax advantages like donating time to charity, medical supply transport, etc. However, always remember the old saying, "If you want to make a large fortune into a small one, invest in aviation. Proceed with caution and do your due diligence!

I've been there and done that! In the end, I considered myself fortunate to break even. However, today the costs of flying are so much higher it certainly is worth a look!
Bingo. I did the same thing. Got called in for an audit and walked out with a clean bill of health. I upgraded my certificates against the business in "order to expand my company"
Keep in mind, That after 5 years, the IRS will consider your losses are due to a hobby and that's the end of your write-offs
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