Questions for the accomplished
 

Why hello fellow pilots,
I am a student pilot at the age of 21, i have just started my career in flying but am looking for some advice from the already accomplished career pilots. I would love to eventually fly commercial for airliners or fly private for corporations (any beginners dream). But i'm not completely informed with the steps needed to make this dream come true. I am willing to do what it takes just need the right steps. btw i am enrolled in a career pilot course at gtcc aviation (a highly ranked aviation program). Just beginning this fall. WHAT SHALL I SET MYSELF UP FOR?! WHERE DO I GO AFTER SCHOOL/AFTER I EARN MY PRIVATE WHAT SHOULD I SHOOT FOR TO CONTINUE MY GOAL?! Im sorry if these are beginner questions but i could 100% use the advice and direction from multiple peers. thanks!! -MrMabe

First of all, read the following web article fully, and take it to heart. It is an unbiased set of essays by an airline pilot speaking to those in your situation:

The Truth About the Profession

As far as what to do next, coming here for supplemental opinions is a good plan and highly recommended, but for your main line of advice the career guidance counselors at your flight school are mandatory. Ask them what to do.

Generally you will progress through a series of flight ratings culminating in time-building flight jobs. This might include entry level commercial flying, and possibly flight instruction. Or both.

Then you apply for regional airline job when you have the requisite flight time which is now 1500 hours. It is also possible to work for corporate flight departments, and/or to enroll in the military. Military flight slots are highly valuable in building pilot credentials.

If you love to fly, I suggest looking into aviation careers (generally non-flying) that pay well enough for you to be able to own your own plane and fly around anywhere you want, when you want, how you want. This typically doesn't happen flying for an airline. Nothing like ultimate freedom.

I wish.
Those other careers generally work you plenty hard though so by the time you get some freedom-time, you just want to rack-out.
Either way you get worked hard so - what to do getting worked.:(

Network now. Find a way through family friends, work friends, relatives etc a way into a local airport. Talk to everyone. Find a way to avoid flying at the regional airlines. That's my best advice.

Be persistent! Take whatever flying job comes your way. You will have some jobs that really suck but don't worry, keep your ear open for flying opportunities that are better than what you currently have. The pay will suck and you might find yourself sleeping in your car from time to time but if you persist, you will find yourself making a good living with a good schedule.

Go to Alaska or San Juan PR. tailwheel.

:rolleyes: Come one - if you're going to give the guy advice, at least make it truthful. The person who told the guy to read "the truth about the profession" was at least steering him toward good information.

Being persistent isn't the only factor and being willing to take crappy jobs with bad pay and sleep in your car doesn't mean you will definitely end up making a good living or having a good schedule. Some guys could spend their entire life sleeping in their car hoping to land that dream job and it ain't gonna happen. It's not a done deal as long as you're willing to wait long enough. That's a bit more truthful, IMO.

Why are you guys implying that he'll be able to afford a car?!?

;)

Get used to being disappointed, look forward to being cynical 25 years later once you're in.. :eek:

Fly for fun
 

Remotely piloted airplanes are the future. Artificial intelligence and automation is taking over the flight deck. If you want to fly a plane buy a Cessna 150 and get a real job.

Skyhigh

While you are working toward your commercial license, be looking for Air Guard/Reserve slots too. There are web sites dedicated to the ANG/Reserves (someone got that link?) but if you are persistent and get selected for pilot training, you will get FREE flying lessons, in JETS, and have a good job to come back to when you complete pilot training.

Then you are free to pursue your civilian flying dream, be it airlines or corporate, while you also fly for Uncle Sam part time.

Beats living in your car :rolleyes: or flying a 150 with Skyhigh!

The expert has spoken, time to close the thread.

The best thing to happen to the aviation industry.... Skyhigh's failure! Flying with you would be miserable.

If not the whole forum...:p

Ok, I get it, you are a "glass half empty kind of guy" Yes, in life there are disappoints. But in the long run, if you are persistent, prepare for the job you want, you have a better chance of getting that job than say hitting the Powerball Jackpot. One must be realistic about the career they are striving for, especially an airline career. If your vision is not correctable to 20/20, you have a drunk driving conviction, a FAR violation or bend metal on an airplane, no matter how hard you work you will not work for a major airline

Unless your name is Joe Balzer.

Here's that website I was talking about earlier:

JSUPT - USAF Military Pilot Training Information

They will actually -pay you- to take flying lessons! :eek::D

Nope. I'm actually blessed with what most consider one of the best jobs in the US commercial aviation industry and I consider my glass quite full. Not to say there wasn't some significant gnashing of teeth to get here but I was fortunate to have a good network, good quals and a serious amount of luck (you'll note I did not mention persistence). I just think a newbie considering entering this industry deserves some realistic advice and not the koolaid party line. Now that you've amended your statement, I'd agree with you - a powerball hit is probably a just little less likely than landing a good flying job. However, buying a ticket in a 7-11 involves far less sacrifice, expense and potential disappointment.

This new guy looking for advice would be much better served getting some from an airline pilot who has actually been in the job market sometime in the last decade.

Probably the best advice I could offer him is to join a Guard/Reserve unit, get some outstanding training, get paid while he's getting it, build his network at the same time, gain some credible qualifications and eventually land his dream job with his self-respect intact. Or, he could wh0re himself out to every shady employer looking to take advantage of "persistent" new guys willing to sleep in their car for what might be a pipe dream. His choice.......:cool:

"Probably the best advice I could offer him is to join a Guard/Reserve unit, get some outstanding training, get paid while he's getting it, build his network at the same time, gain some credible qualifications and eventually land his dream job with his self-respect intact. Or, he could wh0re himself out to every shady employer looking to take advantage of "persistent" new guys willing to sleep in their car for what might be a pipe dream. His choice.......:cool:[/QUOTE]

Getting into the Guard/Reserves IS great advice. The industry is full of shady operators and "whoring yourself out" as you say, (short of being a scab of course) is acceptable to me because it's just another step up to your next flying job. Let me be clear; there are a lot of FBO's and charter operators out there that have the mind-set that "the pilots should be PAYING them to fly their airplanes. Most people pursuing an airline career will eventually fly for these operators - apparently, you never did. You were very lucky, to say the least.

Fun to fly with?
 

I was always very polite to those who I flew with. Besides they usually shared the same opinions anyways. In addition failure is in the eye of the beholder. I was able to get out and salvage my life. ;)

Skyhigh

I have a real job. I get paid to fly aircraft. Nothing wrong with a Cessna 150, mind you, but my ride is a whole lot more interesting and considerably more challenging.

I have no regrets. You seem to live your life in sorrow, and your path here can be measured by a trail of pessimistic tears and disappointment.

It must really grate on you to know that so many of us have happy, fulfilling, productive, and even lucrative careers in aviation.

Pathetic. Perpetuating this attitude is one of the things that has helped to decimate this industry over the last 30 or so years. The guys climbing all over each other to get in line to fly an RJ for 18K a year have successfully diminished their own chances to get into the job they're striving to get. It's a self-licking ice cream cone. The only ones winning are the airlines that can farm out their short haul domestic flying to the lowest bidder.

And if no one showed up with their tube of KY ready to bend over for them, then they would have to pay a real wage. Same thing at the regional airlines. Sooner or later these young guys are going to realize that the dream job at the end of the rainbow isn't the one guys like you are making it out to be - and it isn't worth it. There aren't enough good flying jobs out there for every "persistent" newbie to get one if they stick around long enough and hopscotch from one bad job to another.

They don't have to - if they're not being paid what they're worth, for the skills they possess, then they don't take the job. Pretty simple. Lots of folks are making that choice - did you see hiring bonuses being offered to get guys to take RJ jobs a few years ago?
Yeah.....luck had nothing to do with me not flying for those types. I would never have taken that route - I have to look myself in the mirror each morning.

So you're doing aerobatics and spins constantly on your flights?

We got pulled off the fire after just three drops today, due to thunderstorms and radical changes in fire behavior, but drops down canyon with steep runs under the smoke column, up against some very active flame fronts, and some fairly violent low level runs on a wind driven wildfire were interesting enough. I didn't feel the need to spin.

Oh, so not as interesting as aerobatics all day.

Your perspective is based on a military flying basis. Your profile indicates you flew F-15's. As a military pilot you were respected, Paid well and enjoyed a lot of prestige- You were an Officer and a Gentleman. Your accumulated flight-time was bought and paid for by the taxpayers of this country who recognize that it is money well spent. But for the rest of us, the great unwashed, We had to scrape by with part-time or full-time jobs, pay for college and run up bills that are unimaginable paying for flight time and training. We never felt we were too good for a flying job but rather lucky to have one. If the only flying job available was long hours and low pay; we took it and flew enough hours to get the experience to get the next job. Our perspective is quite different. As for me, I spent time in the military, spent time on the ground in a combat zone but did not fly in the military except for the back end of a Huey or a CH-46.

I think it is, but I'm being paid to do this, not aerobatics.

Tell you what; you go do this for a while, so that you know what you're talking about, then get back to me.