to be or not to be
 

For the last few day I have been struggling with the decision on whether to stay in the military or get out and pursuit my dream of become an airline pilot. Am a currently 29 years old, single with no kids, and have a BS in Business. I have been literally glue to the internet for days trying to do my research to help me make the right decision. From what I have read in articles and forums, all the signs point to staying in the military. But event-though the wage suck, quality of life decrease substantially and I’ll be in huge debt from flight school loans, somehow I still would like to pursuit this dream. I finally came to the conclusion that pilots are either stupid or crazy; stupid in the sense that they had no idea what they were getting themselves into or crazy in the sense that they knew what they were getting into but did it anyway. To be honest I think I might be crazy enough to go for it.

My biggest concern at the moment is the cost of flight school. From what I have notice, the entire profession pilot training program range from 70,000 to 100,000. Am worry that that I won’t be able to pay that amount back making 20,000 a year

The question I have is; have any of you knowing know the risks you were taking and did it pay off (it doesn’t have to be monetary)

Do any of you know of or would recommend National Aviation Academy flight training program? The program is 19 month and cost 79,000. By the time your finish you’ll have all the rating plus complete your ATP written plus 400-500 actually aircraft hours

Were you drinking while writing this, perchance? I ask because I want to give you the benefit of the doubt in regards to the myriad grammatical and spelling errors. Typos perhaps...

What is it about this career that makes it your dream? Where do you see yourself in 5-10 years after stepping down this path?

And no, it absolutely has not paid off. It has caused me near financial ruin, stress beyond belief, the choice to postpone having children until my late 30's (which I still haven't due to responsible financial reasons), loss of work (furlough), and a vehement hate for the industry that makes it hard to ever have a positive/optimistic outlook regarding anything with wings.

I've had the opportunity to travel A LOT for both business and personal trips. That's been the best part. It's not worth it though. I would go back in time and tell myself all of this if I could.

No, did not pay off. Moved from airline industry into a parallel aviation job, but not piloting. I did more school and gained more experience to get to that point, but the basic "aviation degree/flight training" to get to an airline absolutely did not pay off.

Most of us realize how crazy this idea is now.

You won't be paying off 70-100K, it'll be at least 100-140K with interest. Think of what you can do with that money?

By far the best idea if you still want to get into the game is to get a decent job, scrape by and go to flight school while working or when you can. The value of this is huge in terms of not being under the burden of debt.

It sounds like you love flying. Have you ever stopped and asked yourself if "love flying"=airline pilot? As if airline pilots are the only people that can love flying?

As far as national academy, it has the word "national", so it must be good.

sorry about the grammatical and spelling errors, I should of done a better job at prove reading. in 5-10 years I see myself as a captain at a regional airline and looking to move up to a major airline.

if you don't mind me asking, at what age did you start flying and were you aware of the hardship you face?

It sounds like you love flying. Have you ever stopped and asked yourself if "love flying"=airline pilot? As if airline pilots are the only people that can love flying?[/QUOTE]

I wish I had the money to fly recreationally or even own my own aircraft but I understand where your coming from, maybe I’ll just have to work hard and hopefully I can afford to do that one day

Fine. That's a best case scenario. Here are some things to consider. Your regional airline could furlough. You'll have to wait it out or start all over again at another regional. Your regional could disappear completely a la Comair. You'll have to start all over again somewhere else. Your regional could ask for concessions, again, and again, and you'll find yourself hating management and the entire industry. You could get in trouble, or fail a training event, for any number of reasons, and your chances of a major job will fall tremendously. You'd better think of becoming a line check airman, so you better also get good at playing the political game as it is at many regionals. Any large economic downturn will stifle your plans. Mergers and acquisitions are inevitable and will also stifle the best laid out plans.
What you see today is not what will be in 5-10 years.

And FWIW, I had the same plan. Now working at Target down the street is looking more attractive every day.



I started flying at 21. Graduated with a BS in Aeronautics at 24. I grew up in an AF/airline family, and was blissfully unaware of what was to come. I knew I'd be away from home a lot, I knew I'd "pay my dues", but had no idea how bad the regionals would become. I went to work for a regional airline that had pay scales topping at $140/hr. Second year FOs could be at $39. That all vanished within a year of working there. Since, I've made over $40k once in eight years of flying professionally.

Throughout college we were reinforced with idea of how lucky we were to be graduating at a time when entry-level aircraft were the new "regional jets".

If you are in the service and thinking about separating, find a community college to use your Post-9/11 GI Bill at. There's your cost problem solved (I'm assuming you have at least 3 years active service, so that's 100% tuition and fees plus BAH and books). So what if you have a BS already, 1-1.5 years of time and GI Bill eligibility to get ratings for free and get paid to do it is a no brainer.

I actually haven given that much thought but its something am going to explore

thanks

I made a career jump awhile back and so far do not regret my choice. I would recommend getting a private before deciding to separate. You never know if you'll even like flying or if you are just attracted to the perception of what pilots stand for to you.

There is an oppressive amount of negativity on this board. Every negative opinion must be taken with a grain of salt as usually the angriest voices are also the loudest. I know plenty of people who are moderately happy at their respective regional and others who have been lucky to make the jump to a major during this time of no-movement. Whatever you do, don't come into it with delusions of grandeur. It will be a long, hard road.

I have few hours of flight time, I just don't have a PPL. I feel if I was to get out of the military I could focus more of my time on pursing my goals

I wouldn't worry so much about the costs as someone should not coming from the military. You get VA benefits which cover pretty much all of your ratings 100%. I believe in some cases it only covers up to 60% of the costs, but with your background, you'll never have to worry about spending $100k on your ratings. It will be considerably less, the only requisite is that you get your PPL on your own.

I do agree with other people when they say that you should first and foremost get your PPL and see if you feel like this is something for you. Becoming a pilot is not for everyone, no matter how much you wish to become an airline captain after watching countless videos on Youtube and on TV. See first if flying is for you, by going and getting your private. The national average is around 50-70 hours of flying.

In regards to other people trying to discourage you from becoming an airline pilot and/or working at a regional, take what they say with a grain of salt. There are TONS and TONS of regional airline pilots who are happy with their job and their life, everyone knows that the first couple of years is tough, but it's like that at most places where you need to climb a ladder. Remember that people usually speak up ONLY when they have something negative to say, or are frustrated because THEIR situation sucks, so, remember that it's not necessarily going to be as bad for you just because everyone says so.

Make sure you research the company you want to work for and go for the one that seems to know what they're doing (i.e Skywest).

My last advice to you is to try to live where you'll be based. You usually start on reserve and it really does suck to have to commute for that. 75% of all the crap you hear about working for a regional comes from the fact that people have to commute on their free time, sleep at dingy crash pads and spend money where they shouldn't due to that.

Just be prepared to be a nomad for a while and never ride against the wave.

I think the best advice anyone ever gave me about getting into the industry was simply "it is what you make of it".

In my last new hire class of 14 people....

Eight had been furloughed.
Five were on their fourth or more airline
Four had declared bankruptcy due to losing their jobs (more than once).

But hey, it's all what you make of it.

A 14 person sample size from one airline and one hire class is considered an insignificant statistic. I know people who went through basic training and half their unit died in Iraq. That does not mean that half the Army (or anywhere near it) died or will die in Iraq. Your point is interesting but irrelevant.

If you haven't realized your GI bill can pay for a lot of your training then you didn't do enough research. Look through the threads on the military section for more info. If your branch still has TA, see if it'll cover your private under the "one time certification" rules. It may only be for AF types though.

Second, consider going Guard/Reserve. Health Ins is $60/mo for a single guy and you're guaranteed to get paid part time. Yes you could still be activated but it's a great financial safety net. Depending on your specially there are oppurtunities to go "on orders" in the reserves for days/weeks/month/etc. Finish a rating, go work for a month (plus per diem in some cases).

Plenty of options.

My point is that this isn't abnormal.

Of course it isn't abnormal. You were at a regional at one of the most turbulent times in aviation history (record increase in fuel, massive economic recession). There are literally millions of people who were laid off between 2008-2010 and still don't have work. The airline industry is not a constant and not immune to economic pressures.

It wasn't a regional, but thanks for guessing. And you're right. And the industry has gotten progressively worse, which the reason for the negativity that is so prevalent on these forums. Look at the new pay rates DHL is trying to pawn off on it's contract companies for the 737 flying. It's pathetic.

I'm simply stating that there is very good reason some of us have a skeptical view, and it isn't just because WE didn't make it. Look around.

That about sums it up. But that’s O.K. Managers and shareholders have to get paid. The public has to fly from N.Y to LA for $89.00 round trip. Union bosses and senior CAs need their salaries and pensions. All of which depend on “crazy and stupid” people investing a lot of their own resources and working for peanuts. Your hard work a sacrifice will be greatly appreciated by all the above. My advice, instead of donating your VA benefits to a flight school get a masters degree in wealth extraction through fossil fuels or medical insurance mechanisms for the acquisition of liquid capital. These days it would be a much better investment
P.S, I did the regionals for about three years before I looked myself in the mirror and realized, I had become the instrument of my own demise.