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Graduating College.. Off to ATP?

Old 12-02-2013, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyboyxc91 View Post
I had my heart set on flying for the Air Force for a long time, turns out that their OTS selection board is sitting in March (before I graduate) therefore I will not be eligible and have to wait ANOTHER YEAR.. just to see if I am selected and then I have been told it would be yet another several months and possibly year before I ship out just fot OTS, then comes the UPT (IF I even made it in).. It is just increasingly unfeasible at least in my mind to wait around so long for a chance that may good and well never accumulate. The flip side obviously I have a good degree so I can go ahead and work or obviously right now head direct civilian and fly like crazy straight to 1500hrs.. then see how things workout.. In my circumstance thankfully I am weighing in the fact I have zero debt as of college grad and I myself have saved a little over 30 G's to run through ratings as a start. I am well aware of the pitfalls aviation may throw but I love flying. Thanks for the advice so far guys.
So big deal, it is delayed a year. During that year, get your IFR and Commercial tickets, and get a job at the airport as a lineboy or something. We are talking a career with retirement at age 60, 65. IE, 40 years ahead of you.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:36 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Flyboyxc91 View Post
Adlerdriver, as I certainly understand your point in some degree of light, in my mind it is what it is, flight experience. Granted, the experience attained is in a shorter amount of time the flight time is the same and in all reality research proves that retention is better to continue throughout a course of study than butcher it into years. I'm not saying the pilots won't come out the same or be accomplished if you do it over the years, I'm saying I have flown with PPLs that I grew up with as a boy, and after I got my license in just under three months I was teaching them tricks and proficiency just by flying with one another... Point is the Instructors are on the top of their game typically just after getting all their ratings and building time... I have 86 hours so no I don't have this experience YET but I wouldn't be looking at this if I didn't believe in it... I mean when you got your license didn't you feel like you were filled with incredible amounts of knowledge and then months or years later have to scratch your head and crack a book etc again wishing you knew what you still knew then... yes you know more from a practical standpoint, we are all pilots, a good pilot is always learning.

Thanks for your input and feel free to engage.
I disagree with the bolded above.
Instructos that have just earned their certificates are definitely NOT at the top of their games.
Actual instruction will eventually get you there.
I doubt that you would agree that a 16 year old who has just received his driver's license would be at the top of their driving game and you would want to take instruction from them.
Personally I like instructors who have some 'real world' experience. but that is my personal views and I know that often the aviation ladder of progression doesn't always allow for that order.

As far as your timeline for the ANG/Reserve slot, no one is saying that the civilian career has to take a back seat to your military application process - they could run together.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:19 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I disagree with the bolded above.
Instructos that have just earned their certificates are definitely NOT at the top of their games.
Actual instruction will eventually get you there.
I doubt that you would agree that a 16 year old who has just received his driver's license would be at the top of their driving game and you would want to take instruction from them.
Personally I like instructors who have some 'real world' experience. but that is my personal views and I know that often the aviation ladder of progression doesn't always allow for that order.

As far as your timeline for the ANG/Reserve slot, no one is saying that the civilian career has to take a back seat to your military application process - they could run together.
USMCFLYR, thanks for the input buddy, I am obviously still very inexperienced and aching to learn all I can! In reference to your statement you are correct. I may have been a little bold the way I worded my original post which you have referred. I do believe that my statement holds weight however in the fact that most new rated pilots have a good degree of proficiency especially related to others such as regular PPLs but I guess it may not be as true comparing that relationship to commercial type flying! Maybe that's a better way to see it.

At any rate, I have been thinking of the ANG/Reserve slots but I do not know much about the process to get a pilot slot etc. I am assuming maybe similar to the lines of USAF OTS and then UPT?.. I would like to fly airlines so in that situation I would fly my airline job and fly reserve when I was needed correct? I hear your airline makes sure that you get that time without penalty..?
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyboyxc91 View Post
USMCFLYR, thanks for the input buddy, I am obviously still very inexperienced and aching to learn all I can! In reference to your statement you are correct. I may have been a little bold the way I worded my original post which you have referred. I do believe that my statement holds weight however in the fact that most new rated pilots have a good degree of proficiency especially related to others such as regular PPLs but I guess it may not be as true comparing that relationship to commercial type flying! Maybe that's a better way to see it.

At any rate, I have been thinking of the ANG/Reserve slots but I do not know much about the process to get a pilot slot etc. I am assuming maybe similar to the lines of USAF OTS and then UPT?.. I would like to fly airlines so in that situation I would fly my airline job and fly reserve when I was needed correct? I hear your airline makes sure that you get that time without penalty..?
There are numeroous threads about the path to a ANG/Reserve slot on both this site and baseops.net.
If that is a route that interests you then the established threads will start you down the right path.
It is a lot of work. It takes dedication.
You have to want it.

Enjoy the ride.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
Who is going to want to receive instruction from someone with a couple hundred hours and "blasted through" a mill?
You realize you've just described every FAIP in the Military training pipeline!
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
You realize you've just described every FAIP in the Military training pipeline!
a guy who went thru Pensacola and is an IP is not the same as a guy who went thru Acme Aeronautics and got his CFI. I think most of us recognize that.

signed - a civilian guy
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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Seeing as my instructor (and a guy with whom I fly a lot with) used to teach at ATP Raleigh, he seemed to enjoy it and the area isn't to particularly busy and you usually can get just about any approach you need and cross country experience right at the 50mi mark (which never happens in the training hotbed of Phoenix). Completing the 90 Day Fast Trak guarantees you a CFI interview with ATP (not necessarily at the place you want at first, but you'll get there eventually) and its a pretty quick way to build time at the airlines (plus, if you want to go to Republic [not my choice at all], during your crew XC you get a guaranteed interview and a conditional job offer.

Overall though, its your choice on how you'd like to proceed, both routes get you there, one is looked upon more favorably; however to airlines, the time is what matters and so long as you have proved that you have the effort and the time, you're good. Obviously, avoid loans (or if you do need them, make them small).
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by satpak77 View Post
a guy who went thru Pensacola and is an IP is not the same as a guy who went thru Acme Aeronautics and got his CFI. I think most of us recognize that.

signed - a civilian guy
Yeah, you're right, the Civilian IP has probably has flown in a snow storm or two, and landed on icy and snow covered runways, and had to figure out what he was doing, with no adult supervision, whereas the guy with 200 hours in PNS...not so much.

I remember reading this in my Air Force Instrument handbook:

"There is no peace time mission which requires flight through adverse weather conditions"

I used to tell them, "Geeze, I hope when the next war breaks out the weather is really good, because most of you guys have never seen a snowflake!"

Signed, a Civilian guy who then went through Air Force UPT in Del Rio. We saw a foggy day, once, but nobody could fly in it!
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Yeah, you're right, the Civilian IP has probably has flown in a snow storm or two, and landed on icy and snow covered runways, and had to figure out what he was doing, with no adult supervision, whereas the guy with 200 hours in PNS...not so much.

I remember reading this in my Air Force Instrument handbook:

"There is no peace time mission which requires flight through adverse weather conditions"

I used to tell them, "Geeze, I hope when the next war breaks out the weather is really good, because most of you guys have never seen a snowflake!"

Signed, a Civilian guy who then went through Air Force UPT in Del Rio. We saw a foggy day, once, but nobody could fly in it!
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this point Timbo.
I'm not a fan of the FAIP/SERGRAD programs either though I know excellent pilots from each, but I don't see how you can possibly compare the 90 ATP wonder zero-to-hero program.
Guess AF training might be a little different, but by the time I could have been a SERGRAD/CFI - I'll put my basic instrument skills. advanced instrument skills, precision landings, formation flying, aerobatics, and advance maneuvering skill set (to include strike, BFM and carrier qualification) against the 250 hr newly minted CFI with a 90 day fast-track program behind him.

Signed, a civilian guy first who when through a similar training track as you, but I didn't go through Del Rio I'll give you that.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:30 PM
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