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Reduced ATP mins from Aviation Colleges...

Old 06-26-2014, 10:40 PM
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Question Reduced ATP mins from Aviation Colleges...

Hey all,

I'm trying to get a second, third, fourth, etc opinion on reducing the requirements for an ATP certificate. I got my bachelor's in urban policy with a concentration (not minor) in Aviation and Transportation. Additionally I got a Master's from Embry Riddle in Aeronautical Science.

From what I understand you can reduce from 1500 down to 1000 for ATP if you went to an aviation college. I asked the FSDO in ATL and he says that it has to have been an actual Aviation program, not just a random aviation degree.

This seems unreasonable considering the curriculum at Embry riddle is probably very similar if not identical to the ones in the other aviation colleges.

Does anyone have a different experience or can give me a second opinion?
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:16 AM
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Welcome to the real world. The FAA writes the rules and reasonable is rarely part of them. In this case the rule is 61.160 which says you need a Bachelors in aviation from an approved program that has 60 hours of aviation subjects and your ground and flight training were conducted under 141 as part of that program. If you fill those squares you're good, if you don't you're not.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:04 AM
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I'm trying to get a second, third, fourth, etc opinion on reducing the requirements for an ATP certificate.
Meaning that you'll keep asking the question until someone agrees with you

I got my bachelor's in urban policy with a concentration (not minor) in Aviation and Transportation. Additionally I got a Master's from Embry Riddle in Aeronautical Science.
Good stuff. Where did you do your flight training?

From what I understand you can reduce from 1500 down to 1000 for ATP if you went to an aviation college. I asked the FSDO in ATL and he says that it has to have been an actual Aviation program, not just a random aviation degree.

This seems unreasonable considering the curriculum at Embry riddle is probably very similar if not identical to the ones in the other aviation colleges.
That doesn't seem reasonable to you?

What doesn't seem reasonable to me is reducing the requirements in the first place.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Meaning that you'll keep asking the question until someone agrees with you


Good stuff. Where did you do your flight training?


That doesn't seem reasonable to you?

What doesn't seem reasonable to me is reducing the requirements in the first place.
What doesn't seem reasonable to me is creating the requirements in the first place.

To the OP: This rule is a non-bender. If your situation doesn't quite fit the restricted ATP mold, it will not adjust itself to your situation.

I received my B.S. in Flight Operations from a part 141 university, which should qualify me for the restricted ATP. However, I transferred to that university with my instrument rating already complete under part 61. I did get my CFII from the part 141 university. Common sense would say that the CFII is is essentially the same material as an instrument rating and therefore should count for that requirement. However, the regulation doesn't bend for my situation either - no restricted ATP allowed because I didn't do the instrument through the part 141 program!!

Sometimes the FAA doesn't make sense, but they're not obligated to make sense. They're obligated to make and enforce rules.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:57 AM
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Just my opinion, but having flown with a variety of pilots over the years I see a pretty solid trend that airline track aviation students are better at entry-level airline flying. No wonder since they were aimed at that role from day one. So I agree with the FAA that such programs can reduce the hours needed to act as a multi-crew pilot in that role. On the other hand, if you put one of these thousand hour pilots in a 40 year old rat trap alone at night shooting hand flown approaches to minimums, an exemption is not a good idea for that group. The paradox is that group does not need an ATP at all for 135 IFR, which is probably not a wise thing because the skill level is quite high in that type of flying.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:05 AM
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Looking at Notice 8900.225 it looks like you are out of luck my friend (you can find a list of authorzed institutions and authorized programs here: Pilot Training ? ATP Certificate)


(2) Section 61.160. Sets the requirements for a restricted privileges ATP certificate in the airplane category with a multiengine class rating. This regulation allows:

(a) Military pilots to apply for an ATP certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an ATP certificate concurrently with an airplane type rating with a minimum of 750 hours of total time as a pilot;

(b) A graduate from an institution of higher education who holds a bachelor’s degree with an aviation major and has completed at least 60 semester credit hours of aviation coursework and obtained the commercial pilot certificate and instrument rating from an associated part 141 pilot school to apply with 1,000 hours of total time as a pilot (refer to AC 61-139, Institution of Higher Education’s Application for Authority to Certify its Graduates for an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate with Reduced Aeronautical Experience, for additional information);

(c) A graduate from an institution of higher education who holds a bachelor’s degree or an associate’s degree with an aviation major and has completed at least 30 semester credit hours of aviation coursework and obtained the commercial pilot certificate and instrument rating from an associated part 141 pilot school may apply with 1,250 hours of total time as a pilot (refer to AC 61-139); and

(d) A person who applies for an ATP certificate with restricted privileges may apply if he or she is at least 21 years of age and has at least 200 hours of cross-country flight time, provided that person also has 1,500 hours total time as a pilot and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of 61.159.

(3) Section 61.169. An institution of higher education that is accredited, as defined in 61.1, may apply for a letter of authorization (LOA) for the purpose of certifying its graduates for an ATP certificate under the academic and aeronautical experience requirements in 61.160.
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