Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?
08-29-2014, 09:33 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Sooner91
I don't know much about other flight schools and what not as I made my decision to go to ATP fairly quickly. A lot of people will complain about the pilot mill type programs and they have their reasons, but so far (still working on my private) I've enjoyed my time at ATP. One other thing I forgot to mention is ATP offers a guaranteed instructor job to build hours to the magical 1500, but also pretty much any other flight school is hiring right now. Good luck on your search!
Originally Posted by Sooner91
Don't mean to dispute or try to argue with you worksweekdays... But half of what your saying isn't necessarily true. As far as instructors having no clue what they are doing, I'm just gonna say my instructor is very knowledgeable.
You say it yourself in the first post above. You know next to nothing about other flight schools nd made you decision to go to ATP fairly quickly.
Later you admit that you are still training for your PPL (and you are fairly new to that training aren't you?), yet you want to say that your instructor is very knowledgable. My question would be - - -how do you know?
Kind of like falling madly in love with the first girl you ever kiss (or whatever the circumstance might be nowadays!). Sometimes it works out and you hit the jackpot right off the bat....other times down the road you look back on it and wonder how you could have been so blind
I honestly don't know what I'll be doing after finishing flight school, hopefully instructing for ATP. But if not then I will definitely be looking elsewhere. ATP is expensive and it kind of sucks in terms of pricing, but when you compare it to other places I definitely think it has been worth it so far. I'm already at nearly 55 hours after 3 and a half weeks and am right now slated to be done in about 5 to 5 and a half months.
The guy who posted for US Aviation Academy posted a lot of good information, and part 141 may not be bad. But personally after graduating college I knew I couldn't wait 12 months and wanted to be done as soon as possible. Also training in brand new aircraft doesn't hurt, both of the Archers that I have trained in had like 70 and 200 hours max flight time.
Did you need a Porsche to get your driver's license in? If you rented a car to learn how to drive - I'm betting that Ford Escort at 1/4 o the price would have worked out just right.
I hope in the end that ATP gets you everything you want/need to make it an enjoyable job for you in the future - and one in which you can make a rewarding career.
08-29-2014, 09:56 AM
#13
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Future Flyer
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Sooner91 - love the enthusiasm, but someting that you need to take on early is how little you know or understand about aviation right now.
You say it yourself in the first post above. You know next to nothing about other flight schools nd made you decision to go to ATP fairly quickly.
Later you admit that you are still training for your PPL (and you are fairly new to that training aren't you?), yet you want to say that your instructor is very knowledgable. My question would be - - -how do you know?
Kind of like falling madly in love with the first girl you ever kiss (or whatever the circumstance might be nowadays!). Sometimes it works out and you hit the jackpot right off the bat....other times down the road you look back on it and wonder how you could have been so blind
Another statement that seems hard to believe in your particular case. I could understand it better if you said - I am having a great time and enjoy myself. But when you start to compare it to other schools I have to ask - what are you comparing it too?
Doesn't hurt? No - I guess not. What it DOES DO is increase the cost.
Did you need a Porsche to get your driver's license in? If you rented a car to learn how to drive - I'm betting that Ford Escort at 1/4 o the price would have worked out just right.
I hope in the end that ATP gets you everything you want/need to make it an enjoyable job for you in the future - and one in which you can make a rewarding career.
You say it yourself in the first post above. You know next to nothing about other flight schools nd made you decision to go to ATP fairly quickly.
Later you admit that you are still training for your PPL (and you are fairly new to that training aren't you?), yet you want to say that your instructor is very knowledgable. My question would be - - -how do you know?
Kind of like falling madly in love with the first girl you ever kiss (or whatever the circumstance might be nowadays!). Sometimes it works out and you hit the jackpot right off the bat....other times down the road you look back on it and wonder how you could have been so blind
Another statement that seems hard to believe in your particular case. I could understand it better if you said - I am having a great time and enjoy myself. But when you start to compare it to other schools I have to ask - what are you comparing it too?
Doesn't hurt? No - I guess not. What it DOES DO is increase the cost.
Did you need a Porsche to get your driver's license in? If you rented a car to learn how to drive - I'm betting that Ford Escort at 1/4 o the price would have worked out just right.
I hope in the end that ATP gets you everything you want/need to make it an enjoyable job for you in the future - and one in which you can make a rewarding career.
I'm keeping it all in stride right now. One of the main reasons I chose ATP was to get done as quickly as possible. I went to college to become an air traffic controller and have been around the aviation industry a few years. Knowing what happened with the FAA hiring changes, I knew I certainly didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket sitting around waiting on the FAA to see if I would ever get hired. I think I've been around enough to know that the aviation industry isn't any rainbow and butterflies.
When comparing to other schools I could have gone to flight school at OU where I graduated from, but it would have taken almost a year and a half to two years as each rating is by semester. Which OU has a good flight program don't get me wrong, I just wanted to be done a lot quicker then 1.5 to 2 years. Also looking at Spartan in Tulsa, they have a good program too. But a big thing there was that there main focus is on there Chinese contract so they are focusing a lot less on their domestic side. Knowing a guy that went there, he had been there for a year and still hadn't gotten his private pilot license.
You're exactly right about costs and how it sucks that it's been expensive. In total I'll probably spend 75k on living expenses, check rides, and the actual program. Which certainly isn't no short chunk of change.
In short, so far I have been enjoying my time with ATP. Hopefully the investment is worth it in the long run and only time will tell.
Thanks for the encouragement USMC.
08-29-2014, 10:09 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Captain CL-65
Posts: 268
Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?
I see some posts saying people pick ATP like it's some magnet with blinders on the side so you can't see other schools but that's not true with the majority of people. I have been flying for 3 years almost, did my PPL in Seattle at a mom and pop school while working for Boeing... Went back to college and continued to fly on a semi regular basis then after years of looking around at professional flight training options I still picked ATP because IT FITS MY NEEDS.. Yes there are people in the program that probably shouldn't ever instruct etc but there are more that are like most of us who have taken things very seriously and have been diligent with studying and making every 0.1 hour count in the logbook... Those are the ones who make ATP work for them and take the most from it. So it is the person who dictates how much effort and skill they suck out of the firehose. You will never get every drop, but you will be successful and a great pilot if you really want to become one.
08-29-2014, 10:28 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 490
Here are some other things to consider about ATP. I went through quite some time ago, but I would be surprised if anything has materially changed.
I recall having the dispatcher in Jax get mad at us. Why? The aircraft was unairworthy. Says who, I need that airplane here for a couple of check rides. Says the FARs, we replied. They got mad and said from the safety of their cubicle that the aircraft was indeed airworthy and told us to fly. We refused. While it was being fixed locally, the ATP boss calls to chew me out. He demanded to know why we would not take the airplane. My response consisted mainly of FARs he was well aware of. He backed down and hung up after muttering that I better be prepared at any job in the future to justify such decisions. I remember thinking to myself that's all well and good, except that I am a paying customer, NOT an employee. This was a training mission for us, NOT a revenue flight, so what was the ******* hurry?
Another example, several weeks later: We diverted enroute due to a misfiring engine. On the ground we called dispatch to report the problem. They told us it was just fouled plugs. Run it up, lean it out, and get that airplane to Jax and we'll fix it. We refused. They got mad and told us to do it again. We refused. Finally they contacted the local yokel A&P to look at it, and he quickly diagnosed a bad mag. He said, and we agreed, it was wise that we did not try to go. It got fixed.
Moral? These guys treated me like an employee instead of a customer. It was a great lesson in knowing the FARs and sticking up for what is right, even if it costs the boss money. But why does it cost them money? Two guys fly the Seminole around. They both paid the same amount for the privilege to repo their airplane around for check rides and mx. If the airplane is out of position, they're not making money.
So for the young guy who's got it all figured out, keep my experience in the back of your head. Don't let the promise of a future job affect prudent and sound aeronautical decision making. It's not worth having to explain what a dope you were at every interview for the rest of your flying career.
I recall having the dispatcher in Jax get mad at us. Why? The aircraft was unairworthy. Says who, I need that airplane here for a couple of check rides. Says the FARs, we replied. They got mad and said from the safety of their cubicle that the aircraft was indeed airworthy and told us to fly. We refused. While it was being fixed locally, the ATP boss calls to chew me out. He demanded to know why we would not take the airplane. My response consisted mainly of FARs he was well aware of. He backed down and hung up after muttering that I better be prepared at any job in the future to justify such decisions. I remember thinking to myself that's all well and good, except that I am a paying customer, NOT an employee. This was a training mission for us, NOT a revenue flight, so what was the ******* hurry?
Another example, several weeks later: We diverted enroute due to a misfiring engine. On the ground we called dispatch to report the problem. They told us it was just fouled plugs. Run it up, lean it out, and get that airplane to Jax and we'll fix it. We refused. They got mad and told us to do it again. We refused. Finally they contacted the local yokel A&P to look at it, and he quickly diagnosed a bad mag. He said, and we agreed, it was wise that we did not try to go. It got fixed.
Moral? These guys treated me like an employee instead of a customer. It was a great lesson in knowing the FARs and sticking up for what is right, even if it costs the boss money. But why does it cost them money? Two guys fly the Seminole around. They both paid the same amount for the privilege to repo their airplane around for check rides and mx. If the airplane is out of position, they're not making money.
So for the young guy who's got it all figured out, keep my experience in the back of your head. Don't let the promise of a future job affect prudent and sound aeronautical decision making. It's not worth having to explain what a dope you were at every interview for the rest of your flying career.
08-29-2014, 11:47 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 292
ATP is only fixed cost if you pass your check rides on time first time. Also the "fixed cost" does not include iPad, headset, Checkride fees etc. If you need more time than advertised. It's very pricey. 400$+ per hour with a CFI. Read the fine print.
08-29-2014, 02:14 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by Aviator89
ATP is only fixed cost if you pass your check rides on time first time. Also the "fixed cost" does not include iPad, headset, Checkride fees etc. If you need more time than advertised. It's very pricey. 400$+ per hour with a CFI. Read the fine print.
08-30-2014, 08:29 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: B-737
Posts: 696
Originally Posted by pkan51
Hi everyone. I am planning on attending a 0-MEI flight program, so far I have found two popular programs ATP and USAA .
ATP Flight School: Airline Career Pilot Program Flight Training Timeline
Zero Time Through Certified Flight Instructor Multi Engine (MEI) Professional Pilot Program | 866-383-2400 | US Aviation Academy | 4850 Spartan Drive, Denton, TX 76207
I been reading a lot of great things about ATP however as everyone mentioned there is a deep price of $69,995 vs USAA's $49,500. USAA also seems like a big school but they seem to be a bit less organize with their information. ATP provides detail on everything for their program, while USAA's information for the program seems to be missing a lot of important information, such as timeline and schedules.
On top of it ATP is fixed cost, while USAA stated there can be additional cost, however there is $15,000 different between the two programs. Can someone me insight and experience on each program? Especially student life, time building after MEI and transaction to regional airline.
ATP stated the program is 180days however it is 7days a week 8 hours a day. I don't mind the workload but is there anytime for catch up with work if there is a part that I miss? I am not a slow person by any means but I like to be prepare.
Also quick bio about me 30 years old mid career change from the financial field. I am not wealthy but I can get by with financial my own training. In the last few months, I decided working in the financial field is not something that I wanted to do for my whole life, and I always wanted to be a pilot so I decided I will pursue a career being a pilot.
Please let me know which school is better or if there are better 0-MEi programs out there. Thanks a lot for reading my post.
ATP Flight School: Airline Career Pilot Program Flight Training Timeline
Zero Time Through Certified Flight Instructor Multi Engine (MEI) Professional Pilot Program | 866-383-2400 | US Aviation Academy | 4850 Spartan Drive, Denton, TX 76207
I been reading a lot of great things about ATP however as everyone mentioned there is a deep price of $69,995 vs USAA's $49,500. USAA also seems like a big school but they seem to be a bit less organize with their information. ATP provides detail on everything for their program, while USAA's information for the program seems to be missing a lot of important information, such as timeline and schedules.
On top of it ATP is fixed cost, while USAA stated there can be additional cost, however there is $15,000 different between the two programs. Can someone me insight and experience on each program? Especially student life, time building after MEI and transaction to regional airline.
ATP stated the program is 180days however it is 7days a week 8 hours a day. I don't mind the workload but is there anytime for catch up with work if there is a part that I miss? I am not a slow person by any means but I like to be prepare.
Also quick bio about me 30 years old mid career change from the financial field. I am not wealthy but I can get by with financial my own training. In the last few months, I decided working in the financial field is not something that I wanted to do for my whole life, and I always wanted to be a pilot so I decided I will pursue a career being a pilot.
Please let me know which school is better or if there are better 0-MEi programs out there. Thanks a lot for reading my post.
It is crazy to see how much it is now. I think when I did it it was around 38K for the whole program and I thought that was a lot!
Good luck on your training. Its a fun job but you wll sacrafice A TON to be a pilot. You will be not making much money for a while, and you will be gone a lot.
08-30-2014, 12:45 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: C-172
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by worksweekdays
Negatives about ATP:
Lots of below average instructors there, why? Because they zoomed through their flight training and have no idea what they are doing!
ATP cares about one thing, MONEY. They don't care about your flight training experience or going at your speed. When you start to complain about anything in training, ATP doesn't have a problem reminding you what you signed up for and that you will be charged more or dropped from the program if you decide to deviate from the plan.
Oh yea and that guaranteed instructor job they're flashing in your face? Here's how that works: All across the country at ATP locations, wanna be aviators are progressing through their flight training at break neck speed, learning by fire hose, hopefully retaining some knowledge. Once a student is done with their program, they are offered the awesome instructor position at ATP.The student will then go to Florida where they will go through the ATP instructor training course. Then will you go instruct? No
, because there will not be any open instructor positions at any of the training facilities.
In the meantime, you'll be in Florida at their call center, taking calls from the next group of saps until an instructor position opens up somewhere. When a spot opens, regardless of whether or not you want to go to that training center, that's where you're going. Forget being able to pick where you instruct, although they may allow a change later on.
So now a brand new instructor goes off to teach for the first time in a an area of the country that they may be completely unfamiliar with, the making of a recipe for disaster. Oh and remember how you sat in the call center waiting for an instructor spot to finally open? There will be lots of guys behind you wanting your instructor position and ATP can't just keep filling up the call center, they need instructors to leave and if they need to, they will help you leave so they can keep moving people along. Make one little slip up and you'll be told your services are no longer required.
As an instructor, ATP will pay you with a 1099, meaning you are never truly an ATP employee, you're just someone doing contract work for them, so getting rid of you at the drop of a hat is easily done. Oh and by the way, enjoy that 1099 come tax season.
Don't do ATP, it's designed to make them money, not to help you become a good pilot.
Lots of below average instructors there, why? Because they zoomed through their flight training and have no idea what they are doing!
ATP cares about one thing, MONEY. They don't care about your flight training experience or going at your speed. When you start to complain about anything in training, ATP doesn't have a problem reminding you what you signed up for and that you will be charged more or dropped from the program if you decide to deviate from the plan.
Oh yea and that guaranteed instructor job they're flashing in your face? Here's how that works: All across the country at ATP locations, wanna be aviators are progressing through their flight training at break neck speed, learning by fire hose, hopefully retaining some knowledge. Once a student is done with their program, they are offered the awesome instructor position at ATP
.The student will then go to Florida where they will go through the ATP instructor training course. Then will you go instruct? No, because there will not be any open instructor positions at any of the training facilities.In the meantime, you'll be in Florida at their call center, taking calls from the next group of saps until an instructor position opens up somewhere. When a spot opens, regardless of whether or not you want to go to that training center, that's where you're going. Forget being able to pick where you instruct, although they may allow a change later on.
So now a brand new instructor goes off to teach for the first time in a an area of the country that they may be completely unfamiliar with, the making of a recipe for disaster. Oh and remember how you sat in the call center waiting for an instructor spot to finally open? There will be lots of guys behind you wanting your instructor position and ATP can't just keep filling up the call center, they need instructors to leave and if they need to, they will help you leave so they can keep moving people along. Make one little slip up and you'll be told your services are no longer required.
As an instructor, ATP will pay you with a 1099, meaning you are never truly an ATP employee, you're just someone doing contract work for them, so getting rid of you at the drop of a hat is easily done. Oh and by the way, enjoy that 1099 come tax season.
Don't do ATP, it's designed to make them money, not to help you become a good pilot.
Lol, what flight school ISN'T designed to make money? It's a business, not a charity.
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