Instrument Approach PTS Question
 

Hello all. I'd like everyone's opinion/thoughts on a matter. I'm a 160 hour private pilot with 20 hours of simulated instrument, working on my instrument rating. Yesterday I was practicing various approaches on my home flight simulator.

I was shooting an ILS. I had set the weather on my simulator to break out at 50 feet before minimums (so 250 feet AGL). The ILS I was shooting was just your typical ILS. 200 feet AGL minimums. I set up the approach and flew it well. I had the needles centered the entire way down. Here's the problem/question.

When I briefed the approach, I mistakenly briefed the LOC minimums (which were 400 feet AGL for this particular approach). Like I said before, I flew the approach well. Needles centered all the way down to what I thought were minimums (200 feet above real minimums). Looked up, no approach or runway lights (or runway), so I executed the missed approach. Came back around, rebriefed the approach, briefed it correctly this time, and landed uneventfully.

Here's the question.

If this would have occurred on a practical exam, would I have failed?

I have a couple different trains of thought.

Good:
1. I never busted the minimums I briefed or the minimums of the actual approach.

Bad:
1. Lost of situational awareness
2. I could have reversed the situation. I.E. Shoot the LOC approach, but brief the ILS minimums, and therefore bust LOC mins by 200 feet.

Thoughts?

Second post on APC. (The post above is my first). Anyone know how to add a poll to a thread that is already started? I want to add a poll saying

What would the outcome of the practical exam have been:
Pass
Fail
Unsure/Other

EDIT: Figured it out.

Yes, you would have failed the practical exam. Seen the exact same thing happen before (applicant levelled off at the loc minimums while shooting an ILS and busted the checkride).

Threeighteen, thanks for the response. I'm not trying to sound argumentative or defensive. I'm trying to learn/discuss. The failure is/would be based on what grounds?

I suppose one could argue the 3/4ths deflection of the GS, but at that point I would already be climbing (and announcing) for the missed approach.

In my mind, climbing before the more restrictive minimums, realizing my mistake, and continuing the missed instead of trying to salvage the approach would be acceptable. I didn't level off and wait for a MAP. I immediately initiated the missed approach...two hundred feet high.

Say I briefed the approach correctly, and flew it correctly. For some reason I don't have a warm and fuzzy about the approach. I go missed at 400 feet AGL. Would I fail for that?

Also, what would be expected to be retrained/retested? Especially if I circle back around after flying the missed and shoot the ILS to minimums and land successfully and uneventfully?

Probably would come down to the examiner, and how the rest of the ride went. If this was the only thing on the ride that was an issue, I bet you would pass. If there were other problem areas during the practical he/she might unsat the ILS as well.

I'm not an FAA examiner, so this is just my opinion. I base it on being a military flight examiner and getting plenty of civilian check rides in both appendix H and AQP programs.

There are certain things that are auto-bust and those typically involve violation of regulations, procedures and/or safety issues. Other errors have to be evaluated based on the situation. Were they caught and corrected or was the examinee unaware of their error or maybe unaware of why it or its result occurred.

In your situation, you didn't violate any regulation and executed a safe missed approach. You realized your error and re-accomplished the ILS properly to a safe landing. IMO, that's not a bust. It would be a de-brief item and worthy of a comment on the check-ride record.

If you never caught the error or flew a LOC to ILS mins, that would be a much different situation and it would be a bust.

The "no warm fuzzy" MAP could be viewed as good judgment. I would be inclined to allow someone one of those on a check ride as long as it wasn't a trend item. It is a check ride, so eventually you have to "be the ball" and get stuff done.

Usually an examiner can tell if someone is worthy of a re-attempt or if they are just not cutting it that day. The AQP training programs that most airlines use these days have leeway for re-attempts should they be warranted.

Perhaps the guy in threeighteen's scenario busted because he "leveled off at LOC minimums" on an ILS. There are valid reasons for doing that (off flag in glideslope, etc) but if it was just due to forgetting he was flying an ILS versus a LOC or lack of procedural knowledge, then maybe that was worthy of a bust.

All true, but I would lean somewhat towards the "bust". Reason being what if he used the ILS mins on the LOC, and got down fairly quickly, leveled and drove on to the MAP? You could very easily impact something short of the MAP.

You could come up with other scenarios, but using the wrongs mins on any approach is a pretty big SA error for a checkride.

If all else was good, I'd debrief that point heavily and maybe let it slide but the guy would know he came close to a pink slip...and would hopefully remember that every time he looks at an approach plate.

The issue is with the MAP and lack of SA, especially if the LOC minimums were significantly higher than the ILS minimums, or if, like you mentioned, you use the ILS mins in place of the LOC minimums.

Going missed early can often be just as deadly as going missed late. Terrain/Obstacle/Traffic conflicts are real and serious.

If there is nothing else wrong on your ride, there is a chance you could pass depending on the DPE, and the environment, but I definitely would not count on it, as it would be a fair bust if they did decide to bust you on it.

Awesome. Thanks so much for the help, everyone. It was definitely a learning experience, and I'll definitely keep an eye out for it again in the future!!

As an examiner, the "grey area" on a missed approach is: Did the applicant notice their set-up error and go missed in a safe position or were they not comfortable and went around before any standards were exceeded? If the answer is yes, that is usually acceptable once. If they had to go missed because they exceeded a standard, then that's usually a bust. In this case, the "error" was brought all the way down to "minimums" and not realized before, which would likely be a bust.

PTS: