College..?
 

you all mention how much smarter/better it is to go to college. the question i have is that when you say college, does that mean a bachelors degree? associates? does it matter? the problem i have is I'm by no means a classroom learner, I went to college for 2 years and I decided it wasn't for me and decided I wanted to try a career out in aviation. so as far as college goes? 4 years? 2 years? what kind of degrees? etc... thanks.

4 year bachelor's degree


Almost every major airline (especially the good ones that everyone wants to go to) require a 4 year college degree. A 2 year associate degree is basically the same as having a high school degree as far as the airlines are concerned.

If you decide not to get a 4 year college degree, you are costing yourself a good MILLION(s) dollars over your career. The fact is if you don't get a 4 year college degree, your career will likely end at a regional airline, making $90,000 a year. You will be excluding yourself from all the good jobs in aviation (major airline, cargo, corporate). With a college degree, your career is much more likely to end at a major airline making $190k a year. BIG DIFFERENCE! And that adds up over 10,20,30 years!

Be prepared
 

One more thing -- many pilots, by choice or necessity, have found themselves looking for work outside of aviation. This can happen suddenly, and many years before the pilot was expecting it.

Ryane I respectfully disagree. I don't have a college degree and I have flown three airliners for a major airline.I was hired at a regional without a degree but with QUALITY time. Also when I participated in the interview process at my former carrier a degree was a square to fill. An individuals quals,and whether the individual could coexist with a crew for an extended period of time were paramount.True I encourage folks to strive towards your goal of a major,but in my short 17 yrs in this business I have found networking,and quality time to be the deciding factors. Just my .02.

Ve, I respectfully disagree. While not having a degree may have worked for you the problem is that there are too many today that have them. While personality and experience do count, a degree does as well. In many cases it is a requirment for employment eligibility. This applies to many, if not most regionals and majors today.

Get college done first, I'm not and I am regretting it because it's just another thing I have to get done after I land that first flying job. It's a weight on my shoulders, so I really need to get it done asap.

A dregree demonstrates to an employer that you are 'trainable'. That you have the discipline and dedication to do what you have to to earn that sheepskin. It definitely puts you on another plane (so to speak...) when you submit the resume. While I was earning my Business degree, I was flying my tail off and building time. Though I have never actually applied my degree, it is there to fall back on should the need arise. It is definitely a personal and financial (not necessarily in that order) decision but all things being equal it can't hurt to have it.

Your path was not altogther uncommon in the past, but in today's entry-level world the 4-year degree has become ubiqitous. A couple decades ago there were plenty of folks who had the ability but not the opportunity to attend college.

Today, the college opportunities are more readily avialable (at least at state schools), so most young people can't really say it wasn't available to them. Hint: If you can afford flight training, you can afford state tuition.

The validity of someone's decision to not attend college depends on what kind of work they wish to do...there are many sectors in the economy where you don't need college, where initiative and motivation carry more weight. Small business, construction, etc.

However, anyone who wants a white-collar job in corporate america, heavy industry, or certain specialty fields (including airlines) will probably need the degree. Someone who aspires to to these jobs and thinks they can do it without the degree (in spite of all the evidence to the contrary) would seem to be exercising poor judgement.

but see then how does one go about doing it in the first place? go to college for 4 years than get your ratings? by the time I go through college and get all my training I will be at least 25 (im 20 right now, currently taking a break from college after 3 semesters) then I would have to build my hours and wouldn't get a job for at least a regional till im 26. Whereas if i start my training right now I could be with a regional by the time im 22 (hopefully). Whats the most important thing in the airline industry, seniority right?

What's the point of worrying about seniority if you can't get the job in the first place?

That pretty well sums it up. Most HR departments will tell you that past accomplishment is a good indicator of future performance when interviewing prospective employees.

If an employer sees an applicant with excellent grades and a BS in Physics, and another applicant without a degree. Who do you think they would score higher in terms of anticipated job performance? This is especially true in a technical job like piloting.

Of course it's supply and demand, and having a degree is not an absolute requirement as evidenced by thousands of pilots who do not have degrees. When the job market is tight, it pays to have the credential. I'd guess that if Age 60 passes, the job market will tighten up for a few years.

My opinion is that you shouldn't go to college just to fill a square. I say do it for yourself! If you choose the right school, the personal enrichment goes well beyond the job search and lasts a lifetime.

If you plan to spend your entire career at a regional, then get there as quickly as you can. Currently you can probably get hired at a decent regional without a degree, but this will change eventually. We are in hiring boom cycle now...and every previous boom has been followed by a bust :(
Note: Few people who have worked at a regional for any length of time actually WANT to spend their life there)

If you ever want to go to a major, you will need the degree. 26 is actually pretty young, many folks start at regionals in the their thirties or even forties. You are probably better off getting the degree first, I know plenty of regional captains with 6-8K hours who are slowly chipping away at their bachelors, one class at a time in between flying and family...not a lot of fun. I would suggest getting the ratings and starting work as a part-time cfi while you are in college...that is achievable if you can pay for it.

I hear about this a lot. I am currently working on my MBA while on reserve and with no family and no kids it is difficult to do.

I say get the degree first if your so worried about your age pull 20 - 23 credit hours a semester and finish as fast as you can.

"Seniority is everything." What flight school brainwashed that into your mind. Seniority is important. No doubt. But think about this. Your argument about getting a job right now is like: Two 18 year old kids graduate high school. One goes to work at Safeway saying, "Hey look, I am making more money than you." The smarter one goes to college, does not make any money for 4 years. But we all know who is WAY better off in the longrun. Yup, the kid who went to college.

You are 20 right now. If you continue college next semester, you can be done by 23. What's this 26 crap?? You can get your licenses and ratings during school. If you cannot do both at the same time, wait until you graduate. They should all take 6 months tops. And the way regionals are hiring right now, I would plan 6 months or so as a CFI. So you're talking 24 max. And that is fairly young.

If you do not get a college degree, your career will likely end at a regional, making 90k tops. If you go to college, your career will more than likely end at a major airline making 200k, or perhaps FedEx or UPS making 250k. BIG DIFFERENCE! Suddenly those 4 years at regional pay are made in less than a year at a major airline.

Seniority is important. But why? At a regional, seniority means you can upgrade. Why do people want to upgrade at a regional? Because they can get Pilot In Command (PIC) time, and that is what gets them hired at major airlines. Your upgrade is not nearly as important if you do not have a college degree because that PIC time does not mean you are on the road to the major airline.
Lets say you go to college, get hired at a regional at 24. You can stay there 8 years (which is a long time!!!), you are still only 32. Then you get hired at a major. You have 28 years of making the big bucks. Could be a difference of 2 MILLION+ DOLLARS over your entire career. Do not make this mistake.

Wow ryane.. thanks. you proved a very good point...

see the biggest problem for me is the whole college thing in general. I'm a pretty intelligent person, but I just cant seem to thrive in "formal education." which is why I wanted to go into the whole aviation field in the first place because originally I didn't think you needed a degree... Anyway.. Now that I'm out, what should I do? Just delay all my plans to fly for awhile and go back to school next semester?

Another issue is of course money.. I'm not the most well off person in the world, but im certainly not the worst.. Paying for school and flight training at the same time is gonna be quite the bill, how does everyone else go about paying for it all? Just loans?

Go to a state college, I'm currently going to California State University Long Beach and only pay $1,432 a semester. It is a great school, and only a couple of blocks from Long Beach Airport. The airport alone has a bunch of flight schools, including ATP, Flight Safetly, and a bunch of FBO's. If your really poor, and file FAFSA, the gov. will give you a grant that will pay for the whole thing, if your not that poor, you can easily work and pay those 1432. The trick is being off debt. Find a way.

I went to a community college that had a flight program attached to it. This allowed me to pay as little as 900 a semester in tuition and also alllowed me to get federal funding to help for the flight portion. I still had to use a majority of the private loans out there, but believe me I am way better off than others I know. Just do as much of it as you can without student loans. They will killl you in the end when your at 1st-5th year FO pay at a regional. Believe I know from experience. :(

I already have the degree down and am now considering a flight program for a career in aviation. One thing I've also considered is going on and getting my MBA (my BSBA is in Economics so the transition is fairly easy), but the real issue would come in paying for both at the same time. Would i get any real world edge from the masters as a pilot? I understand the fallback point-of-view but that is not really why I would do it now.

Is this college thing an american phenomena?
I can't think of anywhere in Europe or anywhere else for that matter where college matters this much

The MBA might help a little bit but I dont think that much. Im doing it so I have something to fall back on.

College in the US used to be difficult to get into and to pay for, but today almost anyone can get accepted, get financed, and graduate so it has become the expectation. Since it is so easy to get the degree, if you don't have one people wonder why not...

As I understand, most of the rest of the world (even EU) still has fewer opportunities for higher education, so it is understandable that not everyone has it.

No, I didn't mean it like that.
Take Norway for example. Everyone in Norway can take bachelors, masters and even PH.D's with ease, I believe close to 90% chose to take higher education. However I believe Norwegian airlines, and most other airlines in Europe only cares about yuor certs and experience, not college, wich is unrelated to this type of job in their eyes.
I don't think anyone has a hard time of going to college/university in western Europe

hmm.. maybe i should go to western Europe to fly than :) haha

Yeah, and you'll quickly find out why people come from Europe to train here.

I would train in europe if it wasn't so damn expensive in comparison to the american prices