ATP, Air National Guard, or Reserves?
05-25-2015, 03:56 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,530
You need the degree to even apply to be a pilot in the Guard/Reserves. You said you couldn't afford both so I think people are assuming you can pay for school and then apply to a UPT board.
If you are looking to enlist into a non-pilot job to pay for school, then try to go for a pilot slot that is a possible path too, however much longer and equally competitive. The Post 9/11 GI Bill will pay for your flight training costs at a civilian school after you get your Private License, along with your 4-year degree, it's not "the Guard" paying for it.
If you are looking to enlist into a non-pilot job to pay for school, then try to go for a pilot slot that is a possible path too, however much longer and equally competitive. The Post 9/11 GI Bill will pay for your flight training costs at a civilian school after you get your Private License, along with your 4-year degree, it's not "the Guard" paying for it.
05-25-2015, 04:58 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,255
Originally Posted by TKOwnedU5
Thanks for all your input. So going through the Air national guard to obtain my bachelors would be a wise decision? Also does anyone know if the Air national guard would pay for a flight school (ATP)?
The testing and qualifications to get a guard or reserve slot are pretty tough and AF flight training has a attrition rate that scares some away.
05-25-2015, 06:37 PM
#14
Nothing to write
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: PA28 Flight Engineer
Posts: 151
The biggest plus of military flight training vs ATP flight school in my opinion: you only need 750 hours to get your restricted ME ATP cert.
Of course, being debt free is icing on the cake. Even though the helicopter time isn't looked at too greatly by 121 hiring depts, the Army Warrant Officer program will get you through the pipe right now without a degree and its flight school counts towards the 750 hour requirement. You can finish college using their tuition assistance benefits, and the GI Bill will pay for your fixed wing transition.
Oh. PS. A lot of States have programs where they will sponsor you through their state college so you don't have to dip into your GI Bill if you're a national guardsman. You might be lucky enough to be from one of these states.
Of course, being debt free is icing on the cake. Even though the helicopter time isn't looked at too greatly by 121 hiring depts, the Army Warrant Officer program will get you through the pipe right now without a degree and its flight school counts towards the 750 hour requirement. You can finish college using their tuition assistance benefits, and the GI Bill will pay for your fixed wing transition.
Oh. PS. A lot of States have programs where they will sponsor you through their state college so you don't have to dip into your GI Bill if you're a national guardsman. You might be lucky enough to be from one of these states.
05-25-2015, 07:22 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by fiveninerzero
The biggest plus of military flight training vs ATP flight school in my opinion: you only need 750 hours to get your restricted ME ATP cert.
Of course, being debt free is icing on the cake. Even though the helicopter time isn't looked at too greatly by 121 hiring depts, the Army Warrant Officer program will get you through the pipe right now without a degree and its flight school counts towards the 750 hour requirement. You can finish college using their tuition assistance benefits, and the GI Bill will pay for your fixed wing transition.
Oh. PS. A lot of States have programs where they will sponsor you through their state college so you don't have to dip into your GI Bill if you're a national guardsman. You might be lucky enough to be from one of these states.
Of course, being debt free is icing on the cake. Even though the helicopter time isn't looked at too greatly by 121 hiring depts, the Army Warrant Officer program will get you through the pipe right now without a degree and its flight school counts towards the 750 hour requirement. You can finish college using their tuition assistance benefits, and the GI Bill will pay for your fixed wing transition.
Oh. PS. A lot of States have programs where they will sponsor you through their state college so you don't have to dip into your GI Bill if you're a national guardsman. You might be lucky enough to be from one of these states.
05-26-2015, 05:58 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 87
As a 19-year military pilot, and fighter squadron director of operations and commander with service in both the RegAF and AF Reserve I hope I may provide some assistance with this question.
First and foremost, it's important to remember that one should never join any branch of the armed services unless you're 100% willing to serve your Country (and State for the ANG). Always remember that serving your country could mean dying for it as well - which is why we have a Memorial Day. It can also mean dealing with a lot of hardships - time away from home, long work hours, difficult work conditions, etc, even for part time personnel. While the services all offer some benefits, that's all that they are... benefits to help defray the challenges of dedicating yourself to service.
Are your friends in the industry that you referred to a bit older? If so they may be thinking of an earlier time when the military liked to advertise it's ability to help pay for college and technical training. In this day and age of frequent deployments, tragic losses, and demanding jobs, it's no wonder the rhetoric of free college educations and free technical training has been SIGNIFICANTLY toned down. Always keep in mind that at any time, including the day after you join a Guard or Reserve unit that unit can be "activated". When a unit is activated your part time duty has just become, very likely, a mandatory, full time job with an overseas commitment. No more college classes or cush day job! But that's okay, right? Because you joined because you wanted to SERVE, not because you wanted the benefits...
As to some more specifics. I'm less familiar with ANG requirements, but in order to be a pilot in the Air Force you need go to Air Force pilot training - a 2 year process for most weapons systems (undergraduate entry through Mission Ready status). To go to pilot training you need to be a commissioned officer. To be a commissioned officer you need to have a bachelor's degree and complete a commissioning program. To get sent to a commissioning program then to pilot training you have to find a unit that will hire you. Once they do, they'll put you on full-time orders for likely 2-3 years (training plus seasoning). Once that's done, unless you secure a full time job you go back to part-time drill status. That means you need a full time job to pay the bills. And a part time status means a very slow accumulation of hours. As stated before, to get to 750 can take quite a while for a full time dude. Part time - even longer.
Right now you don't have a bachelors degree. That means you need to need to enlist. In the RegAF and Reserves you aren't eligible for GI Bill education benefits until you have at least 90 days of active duty. Deployments can change this. But once you have benefits you can start getting your degree. Because remember, you need a degree before you can go to pilot training.
So great, you have a degree. But guess what - you're still in your old enlisted position. So now you have to get a commission... and an officer billet. A lot of units will help out with this process, but it's not a given. The Guard is definitely better than the other services. Now you have your officer billet - hopefully it's a pilot position, if so then you're off to pilot training. And now we're back to my first paragraph.
But remember this issue as well - Guard and Reserve units can (and have quite often) change missions. Sometimes it's from fighters to heavies. Sometimes it's from manned aircraft to RPA's. Changing to an RPA won't exactly work wonders for a future airline career.
I'm not trying to discourage the OP at all, just trying to throw some facts and reality at him. Please don't be uninformed - friends are great references, as is this website, but take everything you hear with a grain of salt. There is no magic solution - everything has positives and negatives. Be careful with military recruiters as well, they'll often tell you whatever they think you want to hear to get you to sign up with them.
But most important, please, please, please join the Armed Services for the right reasons - service to your country, state, and people. NOT as a flight school or college financing program. Even the services themselves no longer use this as a primary part of their recruiting campaign. Please PM me if you want if you have any other questions on active duty or reserve service.
First and foremost, it's important to remember that one should never join any branch of the armed services unless you're 100% willing to serve your Country (and State for the ANG). Always remember that serving your country could mean dying for it as well - which is why we have a Memorial Day. It can also mean dealing with a lot of hardships - time away from home, long work hours, difficult work conditions, etc, even for part time personnel. While the services all offer some benefits, that's all that they are... benefits to help defray the challenges of dedicating yourself to service.
Are your friends in the industry that you referred to a bit older? If so they may be thinking of an earlier time when the military liked to advertise it's ability to help pay for college and technical training. In this day and age of frequent deployments, tragic losses, and demanding jobs, it's no wonder the rhetoric of free college educations and free technical training has been SIGNIFICANTLY toned down. Always keep in mind that at any time, including the day after you join a Guard or Reserve unit that unit can be "activated". When a unit is activated your part time duty has just become, very likely, a mandatory, full time job with an overseas commitment. No more college classes or cush day job! But that's okay, right? Because you joined because you wanted to SERVE, not because you wanted the benefits...
As to some more specifics. I'm less familiar with ANG requirements, but in order to be a pilot in the Air Force you need go to Air Force pilot training - a 2 year process for most weapons systems (undergraduate entry through Mission Ready status). To go to pilot training you need to be a commissioned officer. To be a commissioned officer you need to have a bachelor's degree and complete a commissioning program. To get sent to a commissioning program then to pilot training you have to find a unit that will hire you. Once they do, they'll put you on full-time orders for likely 2-3 years (training plus seasoning). Once that's done, unless you secure a full time job you go back to part-time drill status. That means you need a full time job to pay the bills. And a part time status means a very slow accumulation of hours. As stated before, to get to 750 can take quite a while for a full time dude. Part time - even longer.
Right now you don't have a bachelors degree. That means you need to need to enlist. In the RegAF and Reserves you aren't eligible for GI Bill education benefits until you have at least 90 days of active duty. Deployments can change this. But once you have benefits you can start getting your degree. Because remember, you need a degree before you can go to pilot training.
So great, you have a degree. But guess what - you're still in your old enlisted position. So now you have to get a commission... and an officer billet. A lot of units will help out with this process, but it's not a given. The Guard is definitely better than the other services. Now you have your officer billet - hopefully it's a pilot position, if so then you're off to pilot training. And now we're back to my first paragraph.
But remember this issue as well - Guard and Reserve units can (and have quite often) change missions. Sometimes it's from fighters to heavies. Sometimes it's from manned aircraft to RPA's. Changing to an RPA won't exactly work wonders for a future airline career.
I'm not trying to discourage the OP at all, just trying to throw some facts and reality at him. Please don't be uninformed - friends are great references, as is this website, but take everything you hear with a grain of salt. There is no magic solution - everything has positives and negatives. Be careful with military recruiters as well, they'll often tell you whatever they think you want to hear to get you to sign up with them.
But most important, please, please, please join the Armed Services for the right reasons - service to your country, state, and people. NOT as a flight school or college financing program. Even the services themselves no longer use this as a primary part of their recruiting campaign. Please PM me if you want if you have any other questions on active duty or reserve service.
05-26-2015, 09:00 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 87
Thanks. Hopefully I help the OP as well as any others. I've never been a big fan of those who aren't in the Guard or Reserve trying to teach those new to the industry about how they're such a great way to pay for flying training, college, etc. Those new folks trying to make big career decisions need ALL the info.
Last edited by jimf15e; 05-26-2015 at 09:23 AM.
05-26-2015, 10:48 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 130
I was in the Navy enlisted and was offered a program for me to go get my degree and come back as an officer. I was in a fighter squadron based in Oceana VA. After I completed my degree I had to pay the Navy back with 8 years of service not to mention I had already done 4 years already. I wanted to fly in the Navy but I didn't want to go back on another 6 month deployment and spent 3-4 months on "workups" prior to going out on cruise again. I would have been gone a full year from home. I was single and I could imagine what it was like for the guys that had kids. I decided to decline the Navy's offer and got my degree and my pilot certificates. This is all before the 1500 hour rule. After I declined and enrolled in college "BOOM"!!!! 9/11 hit. I could have been immediately reactivated but I had no call. The only call I got was from my legal officer asking me to update my recall information as I was on reserve status. The Military is NO JOKE!!!! The commercials are great but please join for the right reasons. It will take time to get to were you wanna be but you will get there. I'm not at 1500 yet so I have to flight instruct a little while but I'm getting there and you will too.
05-26-2015, 01:30 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A-300 F/O
Posts: 281
Originally Posted by jimf15e
Right now you don't have a bachelors degree. That means you need to need to enlist. In the RegAF and Reserves you aren't eligible for GI Bill education benefits until you have at least 90 days of active duty. Deployments can change this. But once you have benefits you can start getting your degree. Because remember, you need a degree before you can go to pilot training.
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