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Aviation degree

Old 01-23-2007, 07:13 AM
  #11  
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Two things about that article surprise me:

1. That it was printed.
2. That some nonsensical justification for attending ERAU in spite of the debt loan wasn't thrown in.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:21 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Uncle Bose View Post
Two things about that article surprise me:

1. That it was printed.
2. That some nonsensical justification for attending ERAU in spite of the debt loan wasn't thrown in.

1. Hubris on the part of ERAU leadership.

2. What's the famous quote by Joseph Goebbels? 'The bigger the lie the more people will believe it.' Harvard of the Skies - kids can say that to sell their parents on going to ERAU. Parents can tell other parents at the 'club' their Johnny goes to the Harvard of the Skies and will be flying a jet in a few years. BTW - Johnny's teacher for 'Using a Plotter 200' is a 75 year old F-86 pilot.

-LAFF
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:41 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer View Post
1. Hubris on the part of ERAU leadership.

2. What's the famous quote by Joseph Goebbels? 'The bigger the lie the more people will believe it.' Harvard of the Skies - kids can say that to sell their parents on going to ERAU. Parents can tell other parents at the 'club' their Johnny goes to the Harvard of the Skies and will be flying a jet in a few years. BTW - Johnny's teacher for 'Using a Plotter 200' is a 75 year old F-86 pilot.

-LAFF
I have noticied that you seem to "know" a whole lot about places that you have never been to or expeirenced. If I did not know better, I would have thought you went to ERAU and ATP by the way you are talking about them.

You have a lot of resentment for ERAU, yet it never did any wrong to you. In all honesty ERAU is just like ATP, except with ERAU you get a degree (which is worth the same as any other degree btw). The costs of actual flight time is very similair, with just about equal equipment. By the way, I found something very interesting, in the Regional Forum there is a thread about how an Internship is a real good thing to get, and interesting note is that most internships requires that you are enrolled in an Aviation Major. So you have to get a "worthless" aviation degree, in order to get that all important networking tool, the internship at a Major/Legacy Airline.

I can understand people who went to ERAU being bitter about it, but I cannot understand people who never stepped foot on their campus being bitter about it, let alone actually attended.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:46 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by NE_Pilot View Post
I have noticied that you seem to "know" a whole lot about places that you have never been to or expeirenced. If I did not know better, I would have thought you went to ERAU and ATP by the way you are talking about them.

You have a lot of resentment for ERAU, yet it never did any wrong to you. In all honesty ERAU is just like ATP, except with ERAU you get a degree (which is worth the same as any other degree btw). The costs of actual flight time is very similair, with just about equal equipment. By the way, I found something very interesting, in the Regional Forum there is a thread about how an Internship is a real good thing to get, and interesting note is that most internships requires that you are enrolled in an Aviation Major. So you have to get a "worthless" aviation degree, in order to get that all important networking tool, the internship at a Major/Legacy Airline.

I can understand people who went to ERAU being bitter about it, but I cannot understand people who never stepped foot on their campus being bitter about it, let alone actually attended.

I'm bitter because I couldn't afford to attend the Harvard of the Skies...

Aviation is still a useless degree.

ATP grads don't post on this forum under 'Key Loans.'

-LAFF
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:13 PM
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"(which is worth the same as any other degree btw)"

Liberal arts degrees, maybe. Engineering and business.....no.

Despite ERAU's propaganda 180 degrees to the contrary, there is no justification for a useless degree in flying airplanes, especially one that costs $100K (tuition only). Internships, reduced minimums, nothing. I don't care HOW many stories about MiG Alley you get to hear from your E6B instructor.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Bose View Post
"(which is worth the same as any other degree btw)"

Liberal arts degrees, maybe. Engineering and business.....no.

Despite ERAU's propaganda 180 degrees to the contrary, there is no justification for a useless degree in flying airplanes, especially one that costs $100K (tuition only). Internships, reduced minimums, nothing. I don't care HOW many stories about MiG Alley you get to hear from your E6B instructor.
It is worth the same as any other degree. If you get an Engineering degree, fly as a career, and 5 years down the line you lose your medical or can't fly for whatever reason, and decide to start a new career, that degree in Engineering means the exact samething as a degree in Aviation. You can check off that box that says 4 year degree.

You are too far out of college to use it. People you will be competing with either have 5 years working the field or a brand new degree (more than likely with an internship). You are not competive in that field, and to think that is a viable backup, is setting yourself up for a big disappointment. You are too far behind the industry. Airlines don't hire people who haven't flown in the past 5 years, and companies (which require a specific degree) won't hire someone with a 5 year old degree that was never used. You will forget what you learned, and companies know that.

It may help a year or two out, but after that, its nothing but a 4-year degree. Further in an other post I did a cost comparison, of going to a traditional 4-year college + ATP, and going to ERAU (mainly because it is the one school that is referenced so often). I was curious if it really did cost that much more. Well I found that the only cheaper way was a state school (resident of that state, living on campus though because people in the thread were talking about the "college expeirence" which you miss out on if you commute) and ATP, and that was $7,000 cheaper (this excludes financial aid and scholarships ofcourse). In the grand scheme of things, that is not a huge difference, atleast not as big as some on here would make it out to be. The debt will be similair. So what I concluded, was that you might as well do what you enjoy, and major in whatever you think would interest you. To major in something believing it will be a backup is a faltely line of thought, especially the further out of college you get. The degree is like a car, it starts losing value as soon as you take it off campus.

I also have to wonder, did you go to ERAU?? I don't (and haven't), so I do not know what their classes are like or what they teach, but if you didn't either then I would have to say you are in the same boat.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:51 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer View Post
I'm bitter because I couldn't afford to attend the Harvard of the Skies...

Aviation is still a useless degree.

ATP grads don't post on this forum under 'Key Loans.'

-LAFF
A useless degree is a degree you did not enjoy studying.

ATP Grads who attended out-of-state colleges might. The real question you have to ask yourself is, how many ATP Grads have a 4-year college degree??

Study what interests you, and what you think you will enjoy learning. It will make your college years all that more enjoyable. Studying in something because it will be a "backup" for a new career if your first fails is a faulty line of thinking.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:30 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/Careers/1...ree/index.html

Wasn't Bill Gates a college drop out?

Lots of successful businessmen out there without degrees, there are also lot of highly educated idiots out there living in the poor house.

Yes there better degrees out there than Aviation Degrees but Aviation
Degrees are not worthless.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:40 PM
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I agree that the whole "do it as a backup" suggestion is nonsense. After a number of years, any degree loses the marketability it had at conferment. Also, you are correct that in the context of being a pilot, all degrees are pretty much equal.

Why then, buy the most expensive one available? "Doing what you love" isn't a blank check for tossing common sense and self-preservation to the wind.

Your calculations are inaccurate. That should be intuitively obvious given ERAU's tuition figure alone. These figures are resident tuition and fees only.

PSU $13796 x 4 = $55184 (+ $54000 ATP's PPL and Airline Fast Track = $109184)

UCLA $7143 x 4 = $28574 (+ $54000 = $82574)

UF $3330 x 4 = $13320 (+ $54000 = $67320)

ERAU $25490 x 4 = $101960 (+ $40000 flight training, an unrealistically low estimate) = $141960. This doesn't include instructor ratings, as they are not part of the degree program, and DEFINITELY not part of the estimate.

Yes, I went to ERAU for three semesters. Hopefully, it's the worst mistake I'll ever make.

Last edited by Uncle Bose; 01-23-2007 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:31 PM
  #20  
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Okay so I finally went through all the paper work and such and came up with some figures as to what it cost me to go to the "real" Havard of the sky.
4 years tuition = 16000
Flight Training = 32000
Total = 48000
Outcome = 4 year college degree (yes in aviaiton, i'll explain later) Commercial multi, single, instrument, CFI, CFII, MEI
UND

So why does it benefit getting a college degree in aviation? You want to be a pilot right? Being a pilot is a matter of lifestyle, and experience. I can guarantee that my experience level is vastly higher than most if not all ATP grads. Why? Because I was emersed in it for four years, and you cant take that away nor replace it. In my four years at school I took two classes based solely on regional aircraft. The class was based off the same curriculumn that Horizon uses for the dash 8, and flight safety uses for the CRJ. I also have a strong background in gas turbine engines and advanced aerodynamics. That is just to name a few. I will be the first to admit that I dont know a whole lot about ATP's course work, but i think i can safely assume that there is a huge discrepency between the two. A college degree is not for everyone but it is an integral part of being a professional pilot. Some people believe and will say that piloting is a trade, but being a PROFESSIONAL requires you to emerse yourself in the career and make the effort to utilize all available resources to learn as much as you possibly can. Thats my 2 cents, prove me wrong if you would like, I am always open for INTELIGENT dialogue.
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